Today Kathryn continues her inspiring recovery story, and we dive into many subjects, including grief, self-pity, trauma, and triggers. In Kathryn’s story, there is an undercurrent of hope and the healing power of family recovery that speaks volumes.
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See full transcript below.
00:01
You’re listening to The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. A place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
00:58
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Intro: Welcome back! Today Kathryn continues to share her powerful story. We learned last week Kathryn has lost two of her three children she childhood illnesses and her surviving son has the disease of addiction. Kathryn dives into self-pity, triggers, service, and more. Let’s get back to Kathryn.
Margaret 01:15
Did you ever ask Brian what he thought you did? That was helpful?
Kathryn 01:20
That’s a good question. I think he would say I don’t know that I’ve ever asked him that. I will know. But I think he would probably say that we continued to love him. Not necessarily accepting the way he was living his life. But he always knew we loved him. Always knew we loved him.
Margaret 01:47
I also think it’s important to remind listeners and reiterate as I do often on this podcast, nothing you have ever done for your son. Along this journey was out of Mal-intent. It was driven by love, as my friend says, a lot of love, a lot of fear and a little bit of pissed off. (laughter) And I think that it’s really important for everyone to know that there was no mal intent, even in the manipulation you shared. So candidly, which I really appreciate, because I had to get real about that in my own journey.
I often say it in my family teaching, you know, we look at addicts as incredibly manipulative, and dishonest. And there’s truth in that I am on both sides of this coin. As an addict, I have to be that way in order to get away with my use to survive in the need to use as much as I used. What I negated until I got in my own recovery on the family side was to realize that I had a black belt in the same behavior on the family side. I just looked pretty good doing it because I was quote, the stable one. I wasn’t at times for sure. But I was always again, driven to feel okay, by making sure they were okay. If you live in that way, though, you would have never been okay, because you couldn’t make your other children okay.
Kathryn 03:13
Right. Well, and that’s very true. We did everything we could to keep those children alive,
Margaret: I’m sure.
Kathryn: And the desire to do everything I could to keep Brian alive, was huge. But it was so different, because there were treatment programs that that could have helped our children might have helped our children. They didn’t in the long run. But with the disease of alcoholism, nobody can fix that disease until that person is ready to do it.
Margaret: Agreed.
Kathryn: And, that’s a real hard truth, to come to, but it is a truth.
Margaret 03:54
Is it any different a truth? And this is purely curiosity, because I’ve never faced it. Is it any different of a truth as to when you sought the treatments you did for your other two children, and they were not successful in their outcome?
Kathryn 04:09
Hm I don’t know that I’ve ever really thought about that.
Margaret 04:14
I’ve heard from people it’s different because the person is choosing to use where the other illnesses, they’re not choosing to not do treatment, or follow continuing care.
Kathryn 04:24
But I don’t think Brian chose to drink. He has told me so many times, do you think I like living like this? Do you think that? Do you think this is my choice?
Margaret 04:37
And I’m so glad you said that because I’m in agreement with you. But the common thought out there is somebody’s choosing this whereas if someone has, God forbid cancer, they had no control and didn’t choose it. So, there’s a parallel and a similarity, but yet we treat it differently.
Kathryn 04:53
And I think I used to treat it differently. But I do believe that Brian wanted more than anything else, to not be an alcoholic, because I’ll be able to have a glass of wine with my mom and dad someday. Because we drink that way. And I have said to Brian, I will never drink around Brian again. But he said, I know that if I had, he told me this, just, you know, while he’s been sober this time. He said, I know that if I had a glass of wine with you guys, I’d drive on my way home, I’d stop at the liquor store. He said, I know that about me. And I think that is a truth, an awareness that he’s gained from his work in AAA, because he used to believe, you know, someday I’ll be able to drink socially. And he said, that’s not ever going to happen.
Margaret 05:48
So, another question. I’d be curious if you’d answer is an obviously, you know, there’s nothing that you have to answer. But I’d be curious if you would share a little bit about the parallels in your and your husband’s journey and differences. Because often, well, first of all, partnerships often struggle to survive after the traumatic loss of a child.
Kathryn: Yes,
Margaret: Let alone two
Kathryn 06:10
Yes, the statistic is huge, yes
Margaret 06:13
And then add on a third with this disease. How have you done it similarly, differently, and navigated the journey together?
Kathryn 06:23
I hesitated to speak very much for David, because that’s his story. I can speak from my perspective. I think David would very much benefit from being involved in Al-Anon and going through those steps. And I think David would agree with this. He’s not a very joy filled person. He’s not a very spiritually filled person. David is a believer, but he really doesn’t have a relationship with God. And I think, men, I’m generalizing here, but I think it’s kind of a safe generalization. I think men are much better than women at putting difficult things in a box, and putting them on a shelf. And I think that has been one of the ways that David has coped.
Margaret 07:16
So, you must have come to some level of comprehension about the benefits of Al-Anon with all relationships, not just Brian.
Kathryn 07:23
Yes
Margaret 07:27
You to seem to have an acceptance, that you may be on a different path or found a different path than your husband. You would love something for him, but you accept it.
Kathryn 07:38
Well, some days I accept it more than others, and I’m sure he would contest that. Because I often will think, well, you know, if only you would do this, you would be happier. And I have finally, and it’s along that same continuum. And some days, I do it better than other days. But I try to think of David’s journey, as I would Brian’s, I don’t have any control over how David lives his life. I can model it, you know, I can model the result of the work I’ve put into it, the joy, the peace, but I can’t make he or anyone else do anything they don’t choose to do and it’s the first step. Alcohol has become unmanageable. That can be for any life situations,
Margaret 08:36
powerless to control the disease of addiction, but also powerless to control other human beings.
Kathryn 08:40
That’s right.
Margaret: Yeah.
Kathryn: Yeah. I try to live that way. And just as I think it would be much harder, and I don’t know this, because I haven’t ever lived with an alcoholic, I think is probably much harder. When an alcoholic is living in your home. Either you see the hidden bottles, or you see all the drinking, but it’s the same way with people. I think that I can be more accepting of other people’s differences, if they don’t live with me. But when they live with me, you know, it’s right there. It’s in your face all the time.
And, and I thank God every day for David’s and my marriage, every day, because, you know, I started dating David, when I was 15 years old. I never dated anybody else. And I think it’s pretty miraculous that we are still together. And we still love each other, and spend quality time with each other, and travel together. And I think that’s pretty remarkable.
Margaret 09:46
I agree. It’s beautiful. Speaks to the commitment you’ve made to each other.
Kathryn: Right.
Margaret: The love through all the ups and downs of the journey of marriage and family.
Kathryn 09:57
And that has been mutual for sure
Margaret: Mm, sounds like it.
10:02
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper: Through the holidays I offered the Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group on Wednesday evenings. It was a great success. It was an intimate gathering of people working together sharing their experience, strength, and hope; supporting one another building community and learning.
This has generated a desire to continue offering this type of service so in February I will begin ongoing Embrace Family Recovery Groups. If you have an interest or would like to participate in these monthly groups where we will have topics and discussions, education, community support, and an added bonus will be guest speakers. Many will come from my podcast people who have big guests in the past.
So look in the show notes attached to this episode of the podcast and you will find a link where you can connect with me and get your name and information on a list for updates and registration for the Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group.
11:17
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Margaret 11:29
So, when you look at your evolution and journey in recovery, where are your growing edges that you found the hardest? Can you pinpoint it? Like what turning point.
Kathryn 11:40
And I still find it the hardest is that character flaw of self-pity, their character flaw of jealousy. I don’t know that I’ll ever be a grandparent, I’d love to be a grandparent. But there’s no, not even a anybody in Brian’s life that could potentially be a daughter in law. Those are experiences in my eye that I have come to terms with. And again, some days are better than other days, where this may never happen. And somehow, I have to be at peace with that.
Two have my siblings have grandchildren and in laws and one of my siblings does not, man, I don’t know, his kids are younger. So hopefully that will happen for them.
But when I see friends, having grandchildren and the joy that those grandchildren bring, and the self-pity that just comes from so much loss, you know, so much heartbreak, that I think I have thought, why have I had to go through this? What lesson am I supposed to learn from this. And the only lesson that I can think of is strength, and joy in adversity. But when I went through my step four, and five, those, those character flaws came out loud and clear again, and again, and again.
Margaret 13:16
So, I’m curious, Kathryn, where’s the line between self-pity that you identify as a character defect that you experience, and grief?
Kathryn 13:27
For me, I think the self-pity, if I allow it can get in the way of my daily life and grief over time softens.
Margaret 13:43
When you describe, possibly not having grandchildren, is that not tapping into grief of the losses due to the circumstances of your life and the illnesses that have affected your children? I mean, I understand dwelling in it. I hear what you’re saying, but it’s such a
Kathryn 14:03
No, it’s a fine line.
Margaret: Yeah.
Kathryn: And for sure. When I think back on my therapy, it’s kind of ebbed and flowed, that grief. Sometimes is more profound. Like I recently lost my 94-year-old aunt who was the only living survivor in my mom’s generation, and my mom had early onset Alzheimer’s. And my aunt also lost a child. And so, she and I, over the years have kind of become kindred spirits,
Margaret: of course.
Kathryn: And after her death, it’s like, I don’t think I ever really grieved the death of my parents because it was in the midst of grieving the sickness and death of my children. And it kind of came back to me like, boy maybe I need to pay attention to that a little bit more, that grief.
Margaret 14:57
Triggers are a big part of the Journey of addiction for the addict. They are absolutely a big part of the journey for the family members. And we had a, I’ll say, a shared love, and a shared conversation and experience around your beautiful dog, Riley. Is a service, therapy dog that you do beautiful work, which is probably part of your joy. I assume Kathryn?
Kathryn: Yes, it is
Margaret: You do service?
Kathryn: Yup.
Margaret: You shared with me, because Riley has recently been through a big scare health wise, and I’ll let you share what you want about that. But there was triggers that came up for you around that, that tied into your history that I thought was very important to share, because we have trauma triggers everywhere. And they affect us on how we live our life.
Kathryn: Yes.
Margaret: So, would you be willing to share a little bit about that?
Kathryn 15:50
Sure. I’ve lost dogs and I’ve lost children, I just want to say, the two can’t be compared. Our dogs are not our children. They’re very important parts of our family. But in my mind, they’re not our children. But Riley is a therapy dog. And we have volunteered in a lot a different situations. And he recently had to have surgery.
Developed this tumor on his nose and had to have surgery. The frustration of how long we had to wait, that period of time of not knowing what it was, were huge triggers for me, because of my children. You are really at the mercy of the medical profession. And it really doesn’t matter what you’re going through.
With Riley, they told me in June, that surgery couldn’t happen until the middle of September. And my thought was my dog will be dead, by the middle of September.
It just was so hard for me to believe that, that that was what was happening. You know, I just couldn’t believe it. But we had similar, you know, whether it’s waiting for the results of the test or waiting for blood to be delivered for a transfusion, all that waiting, and not knowing. They were huge triggers for me.
There are also triggers with Brian, and one of my triggers. And I’m not sure how I feel about this right now. But one of my triggers was smelling alcohol on him. And I told him that, you know, if we agree to meet for lunch or whatever, and I smell alcohol on you, I want you to call me and say we can’t meet today? Well, I think he probably did do that with an excuse, probably a lie. But he knew that was a trigger for me.
Another trigger was the condition of his apartment during his terrible drinking days. And this was the last treatment program he was in, which was a little over a year ago. He needed something from his apartment. And I went to get it. And the chaos, and the destruction, and the terrible circumstances that his apartment was in. My thought was, he’s not capable of living on his own. This is not sustainable. He can’t continue to live like this. And there was a note on the door. And I opened it up and it said that his rent was passed due. Well Brian has always been very careful about paying his bills and, and I thought good. This is one more consequence of his drinking. But that situation to me was a big trigger.
Margaret 18:58
When you’re triggered around Brian, whether it’s the smell of alcohol or the condition of his apartment, what happens for you?
Kathryn 19:06
Well, I have a physical response. And I always feel the tension in my belly, my shoulders, sometimes I cry. But I’ve learned to, that when those triggers happen, that I have strategies to calm them to get myself back on track.
Margaret 19:32
What are those? What do you like to use to help you get out of the triggered place?
Kathryn 19:34
Deep breaths, sometimes doing something physical, praying, occasionally screaming and yelling.
Margaret 19:46
Sure. In the beginning, I’m guessing those were not strategies you knew.
Kathryn: No, they, they were not.
Margaret: And what did you do prior to your strategies, when you are triggered like that? Do you remember what you used to do? You’d have your physical reaction you’d have whatever emotional reaction. Do you remember how you then coped if you didn’t have those strategies.
Kathryn 20:06
I think I just kind of waited for them to pass, they might have reached out and it might have come out sideways, and maybe directed at somebody that didn’t deserve for it to be directed at. It felt really good to learn those strategies and know that I had a means of coping. A better more effective way of coping with those triggers.
Margaret 20:36
Sure, and an understanding of your powerlessness.
Kathryn: Yes.
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website,
https://embracefamilyrecovery.com/resources/
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
