On today’s episode, meet Kathryn, a mother of a son with the disease of addiction. As Kathryn will share, her story is atypical and profound due to her commitment to her recovery despite the unimaginable losses she has experienced. Against all odds, Kathryn has implemented six specific tools to support her in her goal of “not living a bitter life” and figuring “out some way to find joy.” Thank you for the gifts I received from your story Kathryn. I walked away from our conversation, thinking I have no excuse not to work my program.
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See full transcript below.
00:01
You’re listening to The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back. every person I have a conversation with touches me in some way or teaches me, and absolutely human beings inspire me. Today’s guest Kathryn is no different. Kathryn shares her story which is a powerful testimony to the healing power of family recovery whether her loved one with this disease of addiction is in recovery or not. Meet Kathryn.
00:58
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret 01:14
I am so excited Miss Kathryn to have you as a guest on the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast because I know your story will reach people in a way that others may not. And that’s one of the big things of doing the podcast. I want people to hear a variety of stories, so that they can relate because not everyone relates to every story, but usually we have overlaps in every story of something we connect with.
So, thank you very much for agreeing to be with and share your story. That means a great deal. So, in starting, as I like to ask, who is your qualifier, Kathryn to your own journey and your recovery.
Kathryn 01:54
My qualifier is my son, Brian, who’s 41 years old. He has suffered from the effects of alcoholism for most of his adult life, I would say for 20 years. Probably,
Margaret: Yeah.
Kathryn: at least abuse early on, you know, if not alcoholism, certainly abusive alcohol that then later got worse and worse.
Margaret 02:24
So, you mentioned that it has affected him, he suffered from it for a couple of decades. Tell our audience at what point did you become aware, ooh this is a problem? And how did that come about? How did you get to a point of realizing there’s something here that’s more than just young men behavior or whatever we might have thought it was.
Kathryn 02:45
And that’s exactly the way it started out. And then his friends started getting married and settling down a little bit, some having children and he had a girlfriend, but I think Brian used alcohol as a self-medication, I think for a long time. And maybe that’s when it began to get really serious.
I denied it for a long time. I didn’t want to talk about it with anybody. And I know that’s a real typical response early on for people who are learning about alcoholism and beginning to accept the ramifications of that disease.
Margaret: Agreed.
Kathryn: I think to talk about Brian, I have to go back to 1984.
Margaret: Okay.
Kathryn: I don’t want to cry.
Margaret 03:42
You know, what, if you do you do. It’s your truth, and it’s your story, Kathryn. And our listeners will understand.
Kathryn 03:52
Ryan was born in 81. And my son Andrew was born in 84. And within three months, Andrew was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And he lived for six years. So, for all that six years, he was sick and in and out of the hospital, and certainly that affected Brian. In 1988, my daughter Abby was born. And she was two when Andrew died. And as we got on through our lives, we had illnesses with parents, and early onset Alzheimer’s with my mom, and a brainstem stroke with my dad. And then Abby got sick in 2004. She was not quite 16, and she was diagnosed with Ewing Sarcoma, which is a kind of bone cancer. And Brian by that time was, he was a young adult he was in this early 20s, there are seven years apart. And I think he could not handle the death, the illness, and the eventual death of a second sibling.
So, he was the only survivor. And I think there was a lot of survivor’s guilt early on. And it was just too painful for him. And so, he started medicating with alcohol. And I think that’s when the abuse started. Somebody told me once that the gene of alcoholism is the gun. But the circumstance is the trigger. And Brian certainly had a lot of circumstances that triggered his alcoholism.
Margaret 05:51
So, Kathryn, I think it’s really vital to say how sorry, I am for the magnitude of loss that you experienced, even before the disease of addiction to hold in your family. And I hear you loud and clear around the gun and trigger, it’s a very good analogy for a lot of people to understand, because no one knows which person has that loaded gun, in their genetics.
When you look back, in hindsight, and all the work you’ve done, through your journey of grief, and your journey with addiction, how did this affect you, in coping with, being present to, handling, I mean, it’s one major loss after another, and then stressful, chronic disease.
So, try and paint a picture for us on how you coped, and navigated it as mom to these three wonderful children of yours that each had their own difficulties.
Kathryn 06:53
I would have to say that my faith journey has been what’s carried me. I remember when Andrew died, I was raised Catholic, I sang in the choir at the Catholic Church as an adult. But I really didn’t have a relationship with God, and with Jesus. Until after Andrew died, and after he died, I started praying to him because he was the closest thing I knew. And from there, I’m sorry,
Margaret 07:30
No, please don’t apologize.
Kathryn 07:35
My faith just grew from there. And it’s grown, and grown, and grown until I finally came to the place where I could not be grateful for my experiences, but certainly recognize that what I have experienced has served me well. I feel like I’m a more compassionate person, a more empathetic person. I feel like I’m a better mom, hopefully a better wife, a better friend, a better sister.
Margaret 08:19
Having never gone through loss like you have or illnesses with children like you have. I can’t even begin to comprehend how I would naturally cope. I’ve met families and felt for myself a bitterness and a disconnect from anything spiritual. Did that ever happen for you? Or was it always you leaned in?
Kathryn 08:45
I certainly felt a bitterness and a resentment, profound resentment, and self-pity. But I didn’t direct it at God. I felt like those were character defects of mine that I really needed to work on if I wanted to feel the joy, and the peace of living with loss like this.
And I completely did not feel that living a bitter way of life was the route I wanted to go. I was willing to do just about anything to not go down that road. And I started seeing a therapist at about the time where Brian’s illness really began to get serious. And about the time he started his first treatment program. And it was a very expensive treatment program that he went to, and my husband and I paid for all of it.
So, I started a little bit before then, I started seeing a therapist and she really helped me to come to terms and accept that this was a disease, I learned a lot about the disease of alcohol working with her. She gave me great literature that I just consumed; I couldn’t get enough. I just wanted to know so much about it as much as I could. So, Brian went through this first treatment program, it was 30 days. And he ended up leaving the program early with a woman that he, at the time claimed he was in love with, and was going to marry. And they both left the program early.
And I guess I would say at that point in my life, I was so angry at God, that is the one time that I do remember just being, I could not even say God’s name, I was so angry because we had invested so much, financially and emotionally, I was convinced that this was going to be the ticket to his survival,
Margaret: right
Kathryn: and to his growth and happiness and health.
Margaret: What year was that?
Kathryn: That probably was in 2016, maybe something like that. So, I think the disease had taken ahold of him a lot earlier than that. He had a couple of relationships with women that didn’t work out. And I’m not sure what the reason for that was. I can’t help but think alcohol probably played a role in it. At that point, he hadn’t lost any jobs, he was still functioning. But when he came home, from this first treatment program, he did not have a job. And he didn’t have a job for several months.
And what usually happened with Brian is he would come home from one treatment program and almost immediately start drinking again, he would relapse, he never followed through with the program’s recommendations. What are your recommendations after the 30 days? And Brian just always said, I need to come home, I need to go to work. And then within a few days, he’d start drinking again. And Brian went through six different treatment programs in those four years or so. You know, maybe it was later than 2016 when this first happened, but six different programs, and never once did he follow through with what their program recommended.
12:46
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper: Through the holidays I offered The Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group on Wednesday evenings. It was a great success. It was an intimate gathering of people working together sharing their experience, strength, and hope. Supporting one another building community, and learning.
This has generated a desire to continue offering this type of service. So in February, I will begin ongoing Embrace Family Recovery Groups!
If you have an interest or would like to participate in these monthly groups where we will have topics, and discussions, education, community support, and added bonus will be guest speakers, and many will come from my podcast. People who have been guests in the past!
So look in the show notes attached to this episode of the podcast and you will find a link where you can connect with me and get your name and information on a list for updates and registration for The Embrace Family Recovery Group.
14:01
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Margaret 14:14
You found a therapist during the first treatment program.
Kathryn: Right
Margaret: You continued that therapy and engaged in your own recovery at that point. Did you follow through with the suggestions made to you or was that a struggle for you?
Kathryn 14:25
I did just because I began to learn that I was not responsible for what was going on with Brian and I couldn’t take the blame for it. And I wanted to live a healthy life.
Unfortunately, my therapist left the United States at about the time that Brian went into that first treatment program. But I felt like at that time I had enough skills that I could do I kind of carry on for a while.
Margaret: Sure.
Kathryn: But then as time passed, and Brian’s alcoholism just kept getting worse and worse, my ultimate fear was that I was going to lose my third child. And that was real. I mean, that was a very realistic chance that, that would happen because of how Brian was abusing alcohol. He would consume bottles of vodka a day.
Margaret 15:36
And how did you know this? Was he living with you when he was doing this?
Kathryn 15:39
No, thank goodness, because Brian, and his dad, and I decided a long time ago that we are better friends, when we don’t live together. That’s never been an option for Brian to come back and live with us. And we stuck to that. And I’m so grateful we did, because I have known of parents who have let their children come back. And then to say, you know, you can come back, if you follow these criteria, and then the child doesn’t, the adult child doesn’t, and the parents are faced with, okay, do we kick you out? Or what do we do? So, my husband, and I never had to deal with that part of it.
Margaret 16:21
So, when did you decide that boundary? Where did that come into the story? Because that’s a strong boundary that it sounds like you stuck to.
Kathryn 16:29
And that was before Brian became an alcoholic.
Margaret: Okay.
Kathryn: And at first, we kind of joked about it, you know, we’re better friends when we don’t live together. And he agreed with that. So that worked out well. And I don’t know, as time went on, and as he went through these various treatment programs, he ended up losing a couple of jobs. He never lost his car. He never lost his apartment. But I always thought, somehow, he is making things work for him financially. And I know, in his younger years, he was very responsible as far as putting money away for retirement. But I think all that money is gone. Now. I don’t know for sure. I don’t ask him those questions.
Margaret: Why not?
Kathryn: It’s not my business.
Margaret 17:25
When did you learn that?
Kathryn 17:31
(laughter) I think I started learning that when I got into Al-Anon, and that’s I started in Al-Anon. And this was at the suggestion of my therapist too. And I had tried a couple of Al-Anon programs. You know, I’d gone a few times, my husband and I went a few times. And I just thought, this isn’t for me, I’m just fine with the therapy. I got back into therapy. Well, it’s been two and a half years now. I found my therapist in France. (laughter) And I contacted the counseling center that she worked at, and I was able to connect with her. And then I thought, well, I should have been able to connect with her on Facebook or LinkedIn or because she was there.
Anyway, we started zooming. And we zoomed every week for close to two years. And I don’t know what I would have done without her support during that time. While we went through step four, and five together of the 12 steps. And she gave me lots of good literature to read about that, too, that I just consumed. I felt like I was just kind of this sponge.
Margaret: It sounds like it.
Kathryn: because, like I said earlier, it was not an option for me to live a bitter life. I just had to figure out some way to find joy.
Margaret 19:01
I’m sure if I imagine people listening to this somebody would be wondering if not many people who live with the disease in their family with someone they love. A child, a partner, or parent. And they know how hard it is to not enable, to not fix, manage, control. It must have been amplified by losing your children on some level. Because as you clearly said, Brian was your last surviving child. And the fear of losing him was a real one because the disease was chronic.
Kathryn 19:38
and getting more chronic, and more serious. I mean, it is so true that alcoholism gets worse, and worse, and worse until finally either somebody gets better or they die. And I felt like Brian was going to die.
Margaret 19:56
So, knowing your truth of your story, Kathryn and having a ask to having lost two of your children. A family member who hasn’t been through that loss struggles with boundaries and how. People are probably thinking, my gosh, if that were me, I would have been even more involved, I would have wanted to bring him home, I would have wanted to do anything to make him well.
Kathryn 20:20
But I knew that wasn’t gonna work. I knew that wouldn’t help him. I knew enough about the disease. At that point, I mean, I certainly went through periods of enabling him financially, calling up and this is something I worked really hard with my therapists on.
Calling him up and saying, just calling to find out how your day is going. I love you, and how are you doing? You know, I’d text? I love you. Expecting, you know, manipulating, there’s definitely some manipulation there, him to respond to me. And he could say I’m great, you know, when he’s consumed two liters of vodka that day, and there was all kinds of lies and manipulations on his part.
We would have plans to get together and Brian would say, oh, got called into work. I can’t make it tonight. Well, for a while, I believe that. And then after a while, I began to realize that those were lies.
Margaret 21:32
I want to acknowledge what you said just before that, because it takes a lot of courage. And a lot of family members struggle to admit the impact of the disease on them. But you said, I had to learn about those messages, calls because of the manipulation on my part. So, I want to unpack that a little if you’re willing?
Kathryn: Sure.
Margaret: What types of manipulation Did you find yourself doing in the relationship with Brian?
Kathryn 22:01
Well, reaching out trying to attempt those contacts. He would disappear when things were really bad. And at first, I just would keep trying to contact him. I wrote him a letter, one time. The thinking at first, this is a healthy thing to do. I am identifying what I need. And as it turned out, it was manipulation on my part, I wanted him to stop drinking because of what I did. I was at some level taking responsibility for his disease.
And this is interesting, I think it’s important for the audience to know right now that Brian, as of two days ago, texted me saying he was four months sober.
And I’m sure that’s the longest he’s been sober since he was in his 20s. He may disagree with that, but I’m not sure about that. But he is working so hard. And he has a sponsor, and he’s been to just about that many meetings, four months’ worth of meetings. He’s doing such a good job, and I’m so proud of him.
Margaret: That’s wonderful.
Kathryn: But I asked him recently, what did I do? Because I knew this interview was coming up. And I said, was there something that I did? That was just completely not helpful for you? And he said, yes. And he identified two things, he said, and I might have said this in the letter, but I told him that as long as he was drinking like this, we would not give him any inheritance. And he says, you don’t tell an alcoholic that. He says all that did was make me mad. And I said it thinking, well, if he knows this, that’ll make him stop drinking.
Margaret 24:05
So, to your point, the way we as family members behave in this disease is to try to outwit, outsmart, out manipulate, out maneuver this addiction within the person we love that is masterful at out manipulating everybody.
Kathryn 24:20
That’s right. That’s right.
Margaret 24:23
Your hope was he hears that and thinks, wow, that’s a goal. Let me get sober. So that can be something which it did the opposite for him.
Kathryn 24:32
That’s right.
Margaret: Okay.
Kathryn: And he didn’t tell me that at the time,
Margaret: Right.
Kathryn: But he also didn’t say, oh, okay, Mom, I’ll stop drinking. I had family members who would say, Brian, when you feel like drinking, just give me a call. And I encourage my family to read the first 164 pages of the Big Book. I think that’s what it is. To learn as much as they could about alcoholism. But even Brian in his drunken stupor, said, That’s not your job.
Margaret: Right? My hope for families is that families are given the Al-Anon Basic Text or the part of the Big Book for families, or a NAR Anon for families. Like, my belief is, when we’re in this family disease, our person becomes our drug of no choice, while their drug of no choice is a substance, and we do around them, what they do around their substance.
Kathryn: Yeah, that’s true.
Margaret: He mentioned two things you did, that didn’t help.
Kathryn: The other thing is, I would not invite him to situations where I knew alcohol was going to be served. And he said, that really isn’t your business either. He said, let me make that decision. And by the way, I’ve learned enough about this disease to know that just for today, I feel like I have my son back. I know that I can’t think, oh, two years down the road. Brian’s still going to be sober. I know today, Brian is sober. And I’m so grateful for that. I’ve learned to live and be grateful for today, you know, because that’s all I have.
Margaret 26:28
If you don’t have that understanding, having lost two children? Who would? I mean that as kindly and realistically as possible. Like, I would assume, because I feel this way, having lost my mum. And that’s more the natural order of life. But life is precious, we take it for granted, a lot of us are always in the future or in the past. And if we lived in the day, we’d have such a better quality of life. And losing someone seems to bring that home in a different way than having not lost someone.
Kathryn 26:59
I think so. And it’s a life lesson that if we don’t learn, we are gonna be really unhappy people? My therapist, no, as she was working with me, and I working with her, would periodically bring up Al-Anon. And I’d say now I don’t need that, you know, it’s just good that you and I are doing that. And she never was pushy. She would just nudge me every few weeks, you know, maybe thought more about it. And I’ll finally I went to a meeting. I decided I was going to be serious about it. I started talking with another woman who encouraged me to go. She was very active in Al-Anon and AA. And I asked her if she would be my sponsor. And I started going to meetings. And I say, I started going to Al-Anon because of Brian. But I stay in Al Anon, because it’s a wonderful way to live your life. I love the 12 steps of it. I think they’re incremental. They’re progressive, they’re manageable. And with the help of Al-Anon, and a sponsor, and for me, and a therapist, plus, the council approved literature for Al-Anon, and other books that I’ve read, recommended by my therapist, and without my faith, I don’t know how I would have come to the point that I am today. And I don’t know what the future holds. I may very well lose my third child. I just don’t know that.
Outro: Can you believe Kathryn’s level of acceptance! It absolutely blows me away to have tragically lost two of her children and to make the conscious choice to not live bitter is one thing. To then while facing the reality of her son’s chronic addiction to seek services for herself no matter where he was on his use and recovery journey, to make sure her life was not bitter. Demonstrates the power of family recovery. Come back to hear more next week from Kathryn.
Margaret 29:17
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story.
Please find resources on my website
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
