Not only does Danni expose her soul in her writing, but she also lets others into the journey of being a family member of loved ones with the disease of addiction.
After this disease took her son Travis, Danni sadly had to embark on a grief journey that she generously shares in her book ‘Shoot My Ashes From A Connon.’
Today Danni shares more about her spiritual pilgrimage with her friends Kate and Elda. Danni also reads another letter from the book she wrote to Travis from her closet.
I know death is one of the scariest consequences of the disease of addiction for all of us. I acknowledge it is hard to consider reading about it; however, you will not regret reading Danni Morford’s book.
If hearing this series of episodes with Danni has raised a desire to seek help as a family member who loves someone with the disease of addiction, I am here to help.
Go to my website and grab your free copy of
Healthy Strategies for Family Members to Cope and
Even Thrive Through Addiction
See full transcript below.
00:01
You’re listening to The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Margaret 00:27
Welcome back in our last episode with Danni she will continue to share her story of grief and recovery after losing her son Travis to the disease of addiction. In our last episode we left off with Danni embarking on a 500-mile pilgrimage across Spain shall also share today another reading from her beautiful book, Shoot My Ashes From A Cannon. Let’s get back to Danni.
00:47
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret 01:01
The inner fortitude, the camaraderie, the evolution of the ups and downs of the experience. I love your honesty with Pete that you’d probably want him to carry your backpack! I so can relate to that thought of my husband there. And it was like, you really needed to do this for yourself, the whole component of it. Such a courageous and spiritual experience for you.
Danni 01:26
It was very spiritual. We would say the Lord’s Prayer as we were coming into each town and then Elda would do the rosary, because she was Catholic. And then each time one of us would just say this prayer. And we would always include our dogs, because each one of us had left a dog at home, and our families. But yeah, we laughed a lot, we cried a lot together. And the last part of the journey, I kind of got ahead of Kate and Elda. And there wasn’t anyone I could see on the trail, and I just screamed Travis name, I had told myself, I was gonna do that. And I ended up doing that, and just so many different signs along the way that was magical. One thing that they say about the Camino, is that the Camino will provide. And we found that out, it does through so many ways that we would never have known, that would happen.
Margaret 02:28
Letters are powerful. I’ve worked with a lot of people with the disease of addiction, who are not with their children, or very important people in their life due to the consequences of their disease. And one of the things, especially with children, I will say to them in a therapeutic environment is you know, consider writing letters to your children, when you think of them and putting them in a box. One day, that child will grow to be an adult and want information and access potentially. And they will have almost a journal of your love for them, memories about them, things to share with them. And this book feels like that in many ways that your letters to others, to Travis, from Travis, for yourself. What a legacy you leave for your family to have that. What a gift you give the world at large if they choose to read it, to connect with parts of themselves that may scare them to look at. And the letters for you, that’s the fundamental basis of the book, a series of letters. Why letters?
Danni 03:45
I think because I have my father’s desk, and he was a writer. My brother like to write, and it’s just something I did probably from 1970 I would just journal and write down things when I was dating Pete, when my grandparents died. And it was just a way that I could kind of grieve. And I didn’t know it at the time how long I would do this. And then I did a journal for the first year of Travis. And then I did the time that was, 12 months I was pregnant with Eric. And then by the time Caleb was born, I didn’t have time. (laughter) So I make it up to him and I’m writing letters to Wiley. So, I hope someday that since I’m older as a grandmother that hopefully he’ll remember some of this and kind of tell him about his namesake. So, I kind of enjoy it. I’m not a good writer as far as punctuation or anything like that. But I’ve learned a lot through doing it. And I think I’ve gotten a little bit better about my punctuation. (laughter)
Margaret 04:58
I love, I’m drawn to vulnerability and authenticity. I don’t give a crap about punctuation as a reader.
Danni: Thank you!
Margaret: And, and so for me, the rawness, and the humaneness, and the permission that you give anyone in life, no matter where we’re at. Whether we’re facing a loss, or whether we’re just navigating this disease, to be a human, be vulnerable. Give the grace to the people you love to find your path. And most importantly, the value of community for you. Comes through loud and clear. Alone, this is impossible to navigate.
Danni 05:46
I could not do it without God, my family, and my friends. And my neighbors, we had the best neighbors, and I couldn’t have done it without them. I really couldn’t.
Margaret 05:59
And take that out a step further. Your Christi Groups and your Al-Anon Yes, you class them as friends, I’m guessing. But those are your communities that also helped you in your darkest time and your most joyful times.
Danni 06:14
Yeah, we’ve done lots of celebrating together. One thing too, Don and Susan Cox, they tell people when they come in, they said believe us, will give $100 to the first person that shocks us with their story. And Susan was able to come to Travis’s first cannon shoot, which was very special to have her there. But I know when I talked about what I did with Travis ashes, ever I mean, I remember Kate said that that’s what drew her to me. She said, I was shocked but then it was like, I like that, that she said that. And I was just comfortable. I knew it was kind of strange to voice that. But I was also comfortable. And I’ve always been pretty comfortable with Travis ashes. They just, they’re part of him.
Margaret 07:11
And I think that gives space to people who may have these thoughts of Oh, that’s weird, or I can’t do that. Or I shouldn’t do that, to be able to do it their way, what feels right to them is right.
Danni: Yeah, yeah.
Margaret: That nobody has the power or nor should they to decide what is right for each person.
Danni: Mm hmm.
Margaret: In their journey with life in general, but for sure around loss.
Danni 07:33
Yes. And I know a lot of people that haven’t opened their children’s ashes, and I think that’s fine. I think like you said, everyone does grief different. And there’s no right or wrong way to do it.
Margaret 07:50
So, your title is just not a catchy title, it has some deeper meaning.
Danni: Yes.
Margaret: We’re not going to talk any more about it cuz I want people to read about it.
Danni 07:59
Okay. Yeah, the title has deeper meaning!
Margaret 08:04
Big time, significant meaning? Do you have a favorite quote, that helps you? You have a lot of great ones that you put in the book. But I’m just curious if you have one that’s been like a touchstone that you really return to regularly to navigate.
Danni 08:22
I think one of them is when I say ‘to write is to undress the soul’ is pretty much what to do.
Margaret 08:30
And when you undress the soul, feels very vulnerable. Right? Like just that thought. Exciting in a way for me because I, I believe in growth, I believe in evolution, I believe in seeking and going deeper, even though I don’t always like to do it. Especially, when it’s under a situation that I’m not really excited about, like a painful life experience. How did you go from doing that? To putting it out for the world? Those are two very big thing. You do it for you. I get that. That’s your healing. That’s your outlet. That’s your care for you. But then you go, Okay, I’ve undressed my soul. Now here, you get to look at it, you get to see it.
Danni 09:12
I struggled with some of it. And then lots of times that think I’d have it and I would tear up paper or go it’s not right. You know, some days were hard. Some days were better. But I remember talking to William at one point, and Sandy, and I said, God, do y’all ever just feel like you’ve gone through the whole day and you don’t get anything? And they said oh yeah, so that helped me a lot to know. Okay, other people that are further along with her writing, have those days. So, I had to be gentle with myself. I had to just go do the best I could and know that, sometimes I would just have to maybe take a few days off and just go like you know, I need to go do something fun, and I did a lot of walking. During that time just go outside and walk and stuff.
Margaret 10:08
If there was someone listening who has lost a child, I would assume many coming here, it’s going to be related to addiction, but loss is loss. There’s a different level of stigma unfortunately, attached to loss to due to addiction versus other losses. What would you share with them that you wish you’d known, or had shared with you, tAo help you on the journey of grief?
Danni 10:38
I think just being vulnerable. I think I had that more because of Al-Anon, and the Christi Center. Taught me that, but I think that people tend not to do that, because I do think maybe they’re going to look weak. And I think the sooner you can do that, you let the healing begin. I think you do have to kind of go to that deep place to feel or I needed to go to that deep place to feel. I think sometimes maybe in the beginning, I didn’t. You know, I was staying busy, so I wouldn’t have to think. And I think there comes a time when maybe you need to stop and just be in grief.
Margaret 11:25
So, feel. Allow yourself to feel even though it’s terrifying, I’m sure at times to feel that level pain.
Danni: Yeah
Margaret: Do you think Al-Anon and attending Al-Anon, In your own recovery around your boys’ addiction, which led to your own recovery around your journey? Do you think that helped you find grief support and be open to it?
Danni 11:51
Yes, I do. I see how community can help, especially with the other parents that have an addict. It’s even different than going to an Al-Anon meeting. That’s just, you know, a step meeting. When you’re a parent. It’s really hard. So, I think that community I found that my parents meetings helped. And then the same with the Christi Center, they put you in a room with other parents who have lost a child and they actually would put Pete in with the men and me and with the women. And then sometimes they would do couples meetings. And then the same when they have a loss of spouse, they do the same like that with other different groups. And I think it’s very helpful.
Margaret 12:39
So, what I’m hearing you did within your recovery around the disease of addiction was you may have started an Al-Anon or touched on, but you actually found parent specific Al-Anon support.
Danni 12:49
I think the parents didn’t happen until about 2000. But I had been going to just the step meetings and other meetings which were helpful because I learned the steps. When I first went into Al-Anon, it sounded like a different language. I was like, what is codependency and, what is enabling and detachment? But I sat there, and I didn’t always speak in the meetings. In fact, I don’t think I spoke for a long time, but I absorbed it and learned a lot by going especially from the old timers. They’re just full of wisdom.
Margaret 13:28
Absolutely. My first meeting I was blessed with four average 75/80-year-old women in come into the tables for years. And I was like, what in the heck are they going to help me with?
Danni: Yeah.
Margaret: They were blessings in my life. Yes, truly. And it’s true. I hear that a lot on the addict side or the disease side. When it comes to chemical dependency or other addictions. They’ll go to a meeting, they’ll be like, it’s not a good fit, because they’re all too old or they’re all alcoholics and I’m an addict or whatever experience the disease will pick at to keep them out of the rooms. When I hear people going to a meeting with a lot of old timers, I’m like, Yay,
Danni: yeah,
Margaret: You be open to it. You’re gonna get a lot here. These people have lived recovery. They know how to do it, learn from them.
Danni 14:17
A lot of the people that were real close friends, I would normally probably not have been drawn to them. And now it’s like, Wow, I’m so glad. They have all taught me so much and we just have so much in common and it’s awesome.
Margaret: It’s wonderful.
14:37
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Margaret 14:49
When with your other children who are alive and surviving, hopefully thriving with their recoveries. Do you feel the loss of Travis has impacted your ability to navigate their journey differently?
Danni 15:06
It was really hard, when Eric did his trip, and he was gone for several months on hiking and everything I remember I was like, can’t you go and get someone to go with you, or, you know, all this kind of stuff. And he finally just said, Mom, if you can’t support me, I’d rather you not say anything. And I was like, (laughter) close my mouth. And he was right. So, I have, and still have to work at not letting my fear get in the way of their living, or me obsessing about something. I don’t like when I go back to that place. And I need to work on that sometimes, because I can go to that fear place pretty quick. Watching my boys, they really are my biggest teachers, because they’re doing fine without me making suggestions.
Margaret 16:12
Isn’t that humbling. But the other piece of it is, is I know, I have fears, you know, and I have to work my Al-Anon program like my life depends on it. Like I’m indebted to that program for how it helps me with my children. And I don’t want to see myself ever not working that program, because it helps me be a better, healthier parent. I would imagine after losing a child, you almost have to double down on some of those basic principles of Al Anon to not live in perpetual fear for your other children.
Danni 16:43
I do, I have to remind myself of their adults. And I can see visually that they really are doing well, they might not do it exactly, like what I would prefer. But it ends up where they’re doing pretty darn good. And it is their life. You know, I think back to when I was growing up, we didn’t have phones, the cell phones, and all this instant communication. But the more I practice it, the easier it gets. And the more they appreciate it. I think one time the day I said well, be careful, Eric or something, you know, he’s leaving. He went, Mom, I’m always careful. Well I was like, of course you are. So, I’m a work in progress still. You know, I think once you have a kid, they’re always your kids. And I can learn to just love them and say, that’s nice. Whatever we learned to say in Al-Anon, I’ll think about that.
Margaret 17:49
Take that breath. areI find it kind of a sweet irony that Eric was the one that checked in with you about your pilgrimage. When that was your role with him? And he said, I got this.
Danni 18:04
Yeah, yeah, the only thing he said was like, are you sure you’re not doing too much? And then once I said it, then he didn’t really say anything (laughter) Actually they were worried, you know?
Margaret 18:16
Yeah, of course, they were worried. But it’s amazing how within the family system, we can have a child who reacts in that way says, hey, if he can’t be supportive, I’d rather not hear which great boundary setting right, which, to his credit. And also, then went to you when he was starting to feel whatever he was feeling and check it out with you. And you were able to say what you needed, say and he respected it. Like what a nice mutual respect of personal boundaries that you both shared with one another.
Danni: Yeah, it was nice.
Margaret: I would assume you’ve received letters from people who’ve read your book
Danni: I have.
Margaret: Is there one that stands out? That touched you in a way that you’re willing to share. You know,
Danni 18:59
You know, I think what I see with most people when they write me, it’s like, they do appreciate the being real. And being honest, and also learning more about addiction. Some people, you know, didn’t really even know in some that maybe don’t have an addict, and they say it’s helped them you know, understand the disease a little bit more.
Margaret: Probably developed some compassion.
Danni: Yeah
Margaret 19:33
I don’t think your perception of an alcoholic or an addict when you were growing up is different than a lot of people’s. Somebody who is not able to function, somebody who’s living homelessly, possibly, somebody who is so out of control in their use. That there is just wreckage everywhere. And I think that is one of the gifts you give people by sharing the vulnerability and letting people into your soul to realize this disease is an equal opportunity disease, that will strike anyone. That it is nobody’s fault. It is not the parent’s fault; it is not the person with the diseases fault. It is a no-fault disease that is based in science, and yet we have a hard time with it as human beings because it radically changes the person with it in ways that seem counter to every value, they’ve always had.
Danni 20:28
Where is that willpower.
Margaret 20:31
So not only does this you know, beautiful book, Shoot My Ashes From A Cannon, not only does it offer a window, a peek into the journey of grief for you. It offers an education into your journey around addiction with your children, your own journey in Al-Anon. I don’t think I can articulate it well enough. The gratitude I feel for you as a human being and a mother for taking the risk was such a tender, painful subject. To show your soul in this way. I honor that, I respect that. And I value that, and I absolutely adore your book. Your words reached me and I, I say that I have not suffered the loss of a child. I have in fact, it was a child, I never met. My husband and I had a miscarriage between our two girls. And until I did some grief work myself. Which is like I didn’t even register it, because they never came to the world. And people would say, well, it was a blessing it happened that something must have been wrong. And they say the loving, in their mind, and I believe it was loving gestures. But the grief project like your husband, I had to get busy. I couldn’t just sit in my feelings at first. And so, I had never made a quilt. And I made my first complete quilt. And it’s called Emotional Honesty. I did it with a sewing machine. And I did it with what I had. I’ve grown up with women in my family, my grandmother, my mother, my aunt, on my mom’s side, incredible sewers, my aunt in particular, her artistry in her quilting, and her colors are beautiful. So, it’s ironic that when I made this, the imperfections when you look closely actually feel right to me. Because when you grieve, there is no right or wrong way, there’s no perfect way. And there’s times when you feel dark, and so at a loss and then there’s other times where you feel light. And so, this baby is baby T 2. So, before we knew about our other girls, baby T was Abbi and baby T 3 is Amelia. And so, this is baby T two. And it’s really funny to talk about it with you, I feel quite a lot of vulnerability, which gives me even more respect for the work you did in writing your book because it feels so sacred in many ways, the grief journey.
Danni 23:11
It’s almost like we’re closer to our one that died, than even in life. Which doesn’t make sense, but it does make sense. Because I think you’re just so filled up with a love and maybe it surfaces a lot. I don’t know.
Margaret 23:32
I don’t either. And I think that’s one of the beautiful things that comes across in your book, of the permission to do it your way, the permission to have it as a journey. There’s no beginning and no end. And I love how much you honor your son. And he is still very much a part of your family. And I think your point is well spoken of the need to still talk about him, the need to have stories and share stories. I would think that’s probably one of the hardest moments when people who’ve known Travis and your family seem to skirt around Travis, avoid it, not share.
Danni 24:16
Yeah, that happened a lot. I know one time Caleb’s friend was over at our house. It wasn’t that long after Travis had died. And it was probably a year, and they were talking about him, or Andrew knew Travis and they were talking about it and I kind of got teary eyed and Andrew went, oh, I’m sorry. And I was like, no, I said it’s okay. It makes me feel good to have you talking. These are like tears of joy and sadness. But you know, it hurts to hear the stories, but it also brings a lot of joy to hear them, so it’s a mixed, mixed emotion.
Margaret 24:59
Yeah. Well, in the piece of that, Danni that’s so powerful is that as human beings, we can explore and feel grief, loss, sadness, and also joy. And if we don’t allow ourselves to experience the grief, the loss, the sadness, we don’t get to enjoy the joy.
Danni 25:16
Yeah. And I remind myself that Travis would want me to. That, if situations were reversed, I would want my kids to have joy and laughter and, you know, be able to do the good memories. And so, I try to do what I know Travis would want me to do.
Margaret 25:36
It’s beautiful. Is there another part of the book you want to end with a little piece that you’d like to read to end our session, if there is one?
Danni 25:44
Let me do Forever Changed.
Dear Travis, your death had a great impact on our marriage. All the existing issues that we were dealing with before your death were exasperated when you died. This August your dad and I will have been married for 42 years. During our years of marriage, we have enjoyed many beautiful sunsets and sunrises. We have also weathered many storms along the way. Droughts of no communication, time of anger and hurt feelings on both our parts. The worst to ever test our marriage was the day you died. The percentage for divorce after the death of a child is extremely high. Our saving grace was the Christi Center. That is where we found a safe place to learn about and share our grief. Not one of us will ever be who we were before you died. But we are definitely better together. Love you, Mom.
Thank you, Margaret, for letting me share. Your feedback. It means a lot to me. I feel like we’re friends forever.
Margaret 26:52
I welcome that. I love that. You know, I don’t believe people are put together by coincidence.
Danni 26:57
No I don’t either.
Margaret 27:00
And I just want to say that passage you read that letter you read, fills me with what I teach as much as I can. The dignity you afford your husband to find his path, even though at times you’ve been angry with him, the dignity you afforded your children to find their path through your work and Al-Annon to try not to be their higher power. And then the dignity with which you used your words, to share your truth as a gift to people if they chose to read but not trying to force it on them knowing that everybody’s path through this pain of grief is individual. I think that is one of the greatest gifts you give through your book, Danni.
Danni 27:46
Thank you, Margaret.
Margaret: You’re welcome.
Margaret 27:51
One of the quotes Danni included in her book was’ Life begins at the end of your comfort zone’. By Neale Donald Walsch. Danni demonstrates vulnerability and hope through unimaginable pain. And I feel so fortunate to have read her words in her beautiful book. And now spending time from one closet to another recording this podcast.
I know the death of any person to this disease is unimaginable. Sadly, it happens way more frequently than we want to believe. I know death is a very painful subject for all of us.
I want to again thank Danni for her courage to put this part of her story on paper, because I humbly believe it is necessary and needed for so many hurting people out there to have the chance to read words from another mother who lost a child to this disease.
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story.
Please find resources on my website.
embracefamilyrecovery.com
and on Danni Morford’s website.
https://shootmyashes.com/pages/resources
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Please take care of you!
