Welcome back! In today’s episode, I am thrilled to introduce you to Maeve O’Neill, who shares her story about the reality of growing up in a household where both parents are suffering from the disease of addiction and mental health issues. Maeve went on to study and work in the field because of her experience and shares incredible insights into her earlier years.
Maeve O’Neill, MEd., LPC-S, CHC, CDTL is the Director of National Compliance for CIRCA Behavioral Healthcare Solutions.
Please meet Maeve O’Neill.
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See full transcript below.
Margaret 00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back today I am speaking with Maeve O’Neill who shares her story of growing up with two parents suffering from the disease of addiction and how this impacted her life her family her childhood her siblings and also how it shaped her experience and her career.
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast.
Margaret: Well, I am so thrilled to introduce you to Maeve O’Neill, who is here with us for our podcast and Maeve, as I usually ask, who’s your qualifier? When you look through your story of your life, who is the person or persons that helped you find your own path to recovery?
Maeve O’Neill 01:45
Ooh what a great question. Well, certainly I have to give credit to my parents who were both, you know, mired in the disease of addiction and mental health issues. So we grew up in a family where there was something going on, and then it was later in life that I could name it, that oh, that’s what that is right. And then they never found recovery. They went in and out of there, I guess issues, but both passed away, having never really achieved recovery. But I early on went into the field of recovery. So, I would, as I could share information or wisdom or information that I found. And, you know, we had our ups and downs throughout the years. But I would say both when their lives ended, I was glad that I was in that circle of knowing what it could be like, you know, if they had chosen the path of recovery. And even though they didn’t, I knew that there was hope out there for other people. So, there’s something my biggest guides. And then working in the field for 35 years. So many examples of mentors and leaders and people that I’ve seen that inspired me every day to keep trying to serve more people.
Margaret 02:49
I’m so sorry, your parents did not find the bliss and joy of recovery that we’ve seen so many people have when we work in the field. So many thoughts come from that. Did you go into the field, do you believe because of your experience?
Maeve O’Neill 03:03
Oh, yes, definitely. I remember sitting in 11th grade of high school, we weren’t in Hawaii at the time, because we moved a lot, part of our chaotic life was moving a lot of moves and changes. And we’re in Hawaii, and I was in a psychology class. And there was this chapter on, you know, addicted families. And I was like, what, oh, there’s a name for this. I’m not the only one in the world. And you know, who has this issue going on. So, it was sort of like, oh that make sense to me, you know, at the time did the research that I could do to learn that there’s a name for it. And there’s people that do this work. So at that point, I decided I was going to be, I thought I’d be a child psychologist or child psychiatrists. My goal was to help other kids never experienced what I was experiencing as a kid. And then at that point, 15,16 years old, still experiencing Sure. So, my goal was to try to change the world. So early on, I started working in a child abuse prevention kind of stuff, and kind of found my way into addiction treatment. And that’s where I’ve been the last 35 years.
Margaret 04:05
It’s interesting, we have a similar path and that I was trying to find my path into where I was going to end up when I was always aware I would help people to your language. I knew I would help people and I did not come from a family with active addiction. But like you I started working with children and then moved into sexuality, HIV prevention, and then due to circumstances of falling in love with someone and unknowingly with a compulsion, landed in my own recovery, and then Hazelden Betty Ford and training and life changing information. When you sat there in school, and 15 and you read that chapter that’s just touching to me, that in that moment you read something that validated your experience that told you weren’t alone and gave you a name for what you had been surviving.
Maeve O’Neill 04:10
Mm. Hmm,
Margaret 04:25
Can you remember that moment, clearly still?
Maeve O’Neill 05:04
I really do. And maybe in my mind, I’ve made it different than it is. But to me, it felt very much sort of freeing, like, oh, there is a name for this. And then I learned about the work of NACOA, the National Association for Children of Alcoholics, it had been formed some years prior to that, and, you know, dove into the work of Robert Ackerman and reading his book, ‘Perfect Daughters,’ which is sort of an example of oh, this is what I may be doing or could be doing later on in life. And, of course, the companion book called ‘Silent Sons,’ which is also really good for men. So I think in that moment, it gave me sort of an understanding, and then I just viewed my experience differently, you know, rather than maybe being as lost in it, or reactive to it, it was like, oh, I think I know what this is, or I know where this was going, you know. And then as I got into graduating high school, I feel very lucky to have gotten out of high school, and gotten into my future, and the volunteer and paid jobs that I got, with mentors and adults who kind of surrounded me with other options. And I saw the adults that I wanted to be like, or I wanted to, to kind of learn from since my parents weren’t able to always be that for us. So I do remember that moment. And I feel very grateful for it. You know, it’s those moments that kind of shift our direction, I think, and if I hadn’t read that chapter, my life may have gone a different direction.
Margaret 06:22
And you speak to another really hopeful component of life in this world. Sadly, your parents couldn’t always be those consistent, stable, directional parents who would give you a vision of what you could have in life. And you found adults who showed you that? Were you always a seeker? Or is that something that had happenstance to come along?
Maeve O’Neill 06:48
Well, maybe it was a survival mechanism, right? Like, well, this doesn’t feel good, this doesn’t feel safe. And I think I need more or different. Once early on, in my one of my very first jobs in the field, I met a mentor, and I can say her name, Debbie Taylor, who I then worked for many times over the last 30 years, and she’s still a good friend and mentor to me. You know, it was that sort of like, this is the mothering, the love, the accountability that I think I need. So, then I think from that moment, I would actively seek it out. You know, I knew what it looked like, I knew what it felt like now. And I could use that to my advantage. Because I feel like part of the good thing about growing up in a family of addiction, there are some good things.
Margaret 07:28
There absolutely are.
Maeve O’Neill 07:29
Yeah. Because that feeling of like you’re hypersensitive to the world around you, and good and bad. I know what feels safe. I know what doesn’t feel safe. And I can find that and really kind of seek it out and avoid what’s not safe.
Margaret 07:44
Beautifully said. And I do think it’s important to point out that people that grew up in this illness are some of the most resilient people in the world, not by choice. They wouldn’t want to go through it to gain that skill. But there’s very sad truth. Did you have siblings? Were you an only child? Yes,
Maeve O’Neill 07:59
Yes, I have a twin sister. So, she and I were right there in it together. And then we have an older brother who’s three years older than us.
Margaret 08:06
Okay. So, if you’re willing, maybe let’s go back a little to the first time, if you can remember, at what age you knew something was off at home. You didn’t necessarily know what you could sense as that sensitive person you were up was off here. Do you know what age that was?
Maeve O’Neill 08:22
Oh, well, that probably goes back much, much further because of the chaotic home environment. You know, there were times, there was violence, there was chaos. There was police coming and us leaving, there was me calling the police on my father, me hospitalizing, my mother that came later when I was in college. So I mean, I feel like it was forever. Home wasn’t a place that felt settled, you know, I don’t have a memory of it being that safe place to land. And like people talk about. Home was a place that we survived, and we got out of, and I’ve come to learn that I think my parents did the best they could with what they had. And in their best, there was some good and there was some good moments, and there was some great things they gave us. You know, we’re all now master’s level, successful people in our careers and in our lives. So we’ve all done pretty well. And some might say in spite of but I would almost say because of the experiences that we had. You know, I think my parents were ill but they were good people at the core. And they probably really wish they could have done different and wanted to do different. So anywhere where I feel like I knew that they loved us. We didn’t hear that or know that from their words, necessarily. But I felt at the time, I guess like, I wish they could do better, but they really can’t seem to be able to and now I understand that that’s a process.
Margaret 09:47
You had compassion for them even in that difficult time.
Maeve O’Neill 09:50
Yes. And I think as a young child, I thought, well, like most young people will if I do this, then there’ll be better. You know if we do this or we get that apartment or we live here or we clean the house or we throw away the alcohol, we, you know, this will make it better, you know, you try to control something you can’t control. So that’s a good thing to learn.
Margaret 10:10
And I want to stop there because that is the most poignant description of anyone who loves someone with this disease, but to hear it from the perspective of the children in the home thinking that. Right A, if we do something different, it’s going to be better. If we control everything around them, it’s going to be better. And at a young age learning that, that’s a challenge to unlearn.
Maeve O’Neill 10:33
Oh, yes.
Margaret 10:34
If that is your MO,
Maeve O’Neill 10:35
Oh, sure. In relationships, in parenting, in workplace. I have to learn it every day, I have to like, it’s not mine to control, not mine to manage, let me, that’s a daily task of mine still to this day.
Margaret 10:48
And I can relate, I have that wiring myself.
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Margaret: When you look at the generation of this disease, it runs in many families, your parents both had it high possibility that the three of you would and are you able to share whether that happened? Or did any of you three struggle with addiction.
Maeve O’Neill 12:18
Luckily, nothing severe enough that it created the kind of problems that for our parents it did. I think because we early on, we talked about it pretty openly and kind of would say, oh, boy, we got to take a different path here and do that. I think each of us I don’t want to tell someone else’s story. But certainly each of us over the years have dived into counseling and getting support and services and relationships that are healthy. For me, when I got to become a parent, it became very clear, okay, this is going to be very different parenting than I got. And thank goodness, I’ve got the education as a counselor and educator that I can hopefully do it differently. But to try to change the next generation at least to avoid that genetics. We know the genetic pieces, they always going to be there. Right?
Margaret 13:02
Right. And the other piece that I’ve witnessed and I’m sure you have in your years of working in the field, it may not be to alcoholics, their children or then addicts or alcoholics. But there’s a propensity to marry someone with mental health issues or addiction issues. Because that chaos that we know so intuitively, is gravitational. It’s not like you look for it. It’s you’re familiar with these patterns as well, I’m sure?
Maeve O’Neill 13:27
Absolutely I remember early on telling people, it almost seemed like it’s skips a generation, the actual active addiction skips a generation and magnets like scientific but as I always felt like, well, because parents would say none of us even use any substances. But if you look at the grandparent that often be something else, you know, so yeah, for sure. And for me, I did. I tried lots of relationship. I was married for 20 years. And in many ways, it was wonderful. And I think we did a lot of repair work for both of us. And then having kids was a wonderful commitment to doing it differently. But after 20 years of marriage, it was no longer serving, I think either one of us. So we’ve been separated now for three years, divorce for three years. And to me that’s just part of that process to have, I don’t have to stay in a situation that isn’t beneficial to everyone. And even a divorce can be okay too, like I think I like seeing both of us in our new worlds and our new ways serving our kids still and trying to be there for them.
Margaret 14:26
If you were to pinpoint, so my language may be different than how you interpret it. But I like to say to my families to help educate the separation of the disease from the person. I like to talk about the fact that when we were in a home with addiction, we were raised by mom, mom, mom, dad, whomever our physical parents are, and we were raised also by the disease of addiction. It teaches us ways to be in the world. And I’m curious in that context with that language, what did the disease teach you as a way to be in the world?
Maeve O’Neill 15:01
Well, it’s not worry, but fearful, uncertain, you know, Brene calls it uncertainty that nothing is certain nothing is sure. Probably a bit isolating the fact that, who do you tell when you tell some people, you get the poor you sympathy or pity, or you get the, you know, maybe we’re not the same kind of a thing. But when you said that I realized as a family that when we were probably 10 years old, we lived in Colorado at the time, my mother was working on her PhD, because even though she was quite sick, she was quite brilliant. And getting her PhD in statistics. She met a family who have become our lifelong friends. And they were part of my view of, oh, that’s amazing. That’s the kind of family I’d want to be part of, and they were part of our family to this day, we’re family. But they weren’t our family. So I had this sort of dichotomy of, that’s what I want, this feels really good. But then when we go home, it’s this. But always trying to hope and believe it could become something different. So I think part of addiction in the family is scary and feels hopeless in some ways. But when you can find those glimmers of hope that, oh, next week, tomorrow, do we get to be with these people and maybe get a feeling of safety and sanity and love and that’s kind of what you seek out. So rather than getting lost in the hopelessness, I feel like I’ve always been a seeker of the hope like, I want to latch on to those good things, and those good people and those feelings that, that I know it can be different.
Margaret 16:39
You touched on something your mum getting her PhD and her brilliance. And I find that a lot with people with the illness of addiction, very creative, very intelligent, very brilliant. And that’s why it’s even more difficult to treat when one can be so successful, so achieving, so creative. So fill in the blank, and not able to stop using for many people that was the stumbling block.
Maeve O’Neill 17:02
Yeah, yeah. And then of course, as you get older, you would learn their stories, right? What brought them to their experience. And I think both of our parents had a lot of trauma and a lot of shame in their lives that they never talked about, that they never probably even shared. So I think that’s also builds the compassion of I wish they had gotten counseling or treatment or intervention earlier on, that they could have not felt that shame and not sort of medicated, as we say, with addiction or sought that as the only option.
Margaret 17:35
Sure, sure. In the work you’ve done, because you’ve obviously done it on a professional level, but also your own personal work. roles in the family. Children often take on specific roles that are identified scapegoats, you know, silent, invisible child, do you recognize your role and your siblings’ roles? Did they change? Were they pretty consistent?
Maeve O’Neill 17:56
Yeah, I guess I always call myself kind of the hero because I was the one who first went into this field and would bring the books and bring them Oh, look at this, look at that, and meetings or whatever it is, you know, watch this show. But I don’t know over the years, I’ve learned to see those roles as somewhat shame inducing, too, right. Like, I don’t think any of us has those roles all the times I think there were times I was a scapegoat and times I was a silent child. And I did all those probably given the day. But I think it’s a survival mechanism to to get in the moment, what am I going to do? And it’s all just rooted in that shame of we’re not good enough, our families not good enough. And if If anyone finds out, we’ll be not accepted. And I think it feeds that hopelessness, that feeling of like, well, I guess I’m this lost child for the rest of my life, rather than No, I am resilient. And I can be whoever I want to be. I want to figure out how to get out of that as quick as possible.
Margaret 18:53
And I liked that frame. You know, I haven’t looked at it that way. But the reality is, is I haven’t met many families where it hasn’t been somewhat fluid. There may have been one or two very staunch like they’ve stayed in that role. But it’s not a chosen role. It’s not like I go out and look to be in that role. It’s a survival mechanism and no shame in that. People find their way.
Maeve O’Neill 19:14
Yes, yes, exactly.
Margaret 19:16
What I hear you saying is I don’t allow that label to stay part of I am more than.
Maeve O’Neill 19:23
Right exactly. And if I was the hero, why? Good for me for doing it because it probably saved some of the headaches and issues that we could have suffered. And I’m not stuck in it. And I don’t have to be that now for anybody else ever again. And I can take the positive of it, which was my strength and my independence and my ability to problem solve. Those are good things that are serving me.
Margaret 19:47
Yes. I love that. I like that reframe. You also see or just earlier that you call the police you had to call the police at a young age. How did you know to do that, with all the secrecy and shame.
Maeve O’Neill 19:59
Yeah, yeah. I think, well, probably just from at that point, I guess I was like I was in college, maybe? I can’t remember. But I think I was probably in college. So probably learning like, hey, have a safety plan. Back then we had a quarter in our pocket, right? How are you going to call for help, but that was a situation where I never felt like the violence was okay. And never felt like, this is something we’re going to get over. I always knew this is not okay, we should not be going through this. So that particular time was just me and my parents, I was living with them. They were separated off and on over the years. But this time, we were back together in an apartment. And again, it is one of those weird things like a horrific seems like such a sad story but I think of the positive. I think I’d done something as my father for something that trust him out. So, he obviously was under the influence. And he slapped me. And then my mother came to my defense, which is an odd thing to have happen. I was like, okay, she does care enough about me to try to stop him. And we went down to the neighbors and we, we lived in Virginia at the time, and I called my brother like, hey, this happened. And I always tell the story, like, we probably were half hour away. But it felt like he got there in three minutes. He somehow teleported yeah, probably not safely on his motorcycle. But he was there in moments, moments time. I remember at the time and thinking, wow, in the really bad situation, people showed up in a loving, caring way that we need to focus on that, that’s where we need to give our attention to right and my dad went to jail that night. I remember the next morning him coming back from the jail. And you know, I think he had been beaten up at the jail because I’m sure he wasn’t, you know, very cooperative.
Margaret: Right?
Maeve Oneill: So, just like trauma on top of trauma on top of just like, just, you know, then you feel bad for him, and I shouldn’t be called the police and all those horrible things. That is the nature of the disease, right, that chaos that kicks off and the regret and all that and that’s why now I live a very zen life. I don’t like a lot of you know, activity or you know, any of that stuff. I like to keep things calm and cool probably as a result of that.
Margaret: Sure.
Outro: come back next week when Maeve returns and we discuss the realities of sharing her childhood experience with her own children. Maeve’s children’s experience was very different than her family of origin experience because in Maeve’s home the disease of addiction wasn’t a coparent. How Maeve empowers and educates her children is such an important lesson for all of us to remember.
Margaret 22:44
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website,
This is Margaret Swift Thompson. Until next time, please take care of you!
