In this third episode of the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast with Maeve O’Neill, MEd., LPC-S, CHC, CDTL, is the Director of National Compliance for CIRCA Behavioral Health Care Solutions.
We continue our discussion on family and support and share lots of hope and compassion around how we frame the journey of our lives.
Maeve has had an expansive career in the field, which continues to grow. She shares many great projects she is working on that support families, individuals, and people working in the field to expand outcomes for all. Today, Maeve shares about ‘All Sober,’ a platform founded by a family that is a single place where you can find resources for all aspects of your recovery journey; like an ecosystem for recovery. Those of you who have sought help know how challenging it can be. ‘All Sober’ makes it much more manageable.
Please find links to all resources mentioned in my show notes.
Let’s get back to Maeve.
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Margaret 00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back to the Embraced Family Recovery Podcast. Today is the third and final episode with Maeve O’Neill. She shares more inspiration and resilience from her own story alongside a lot of great insights and knowledge over her expansive career in the field with an incredibly useful resource for you and your family. Let’s get back to Maeve!
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret: I really admire your lens and approach to life, Maeve. I say that from imagining what it was when you were little to who you are today, and just to hear your frame right then on your children, you know, we’ve provided a safe and relatively stable life. And that may be the challenge of COVID, though we wouldn’t wish it on anyone, we’ll help them develop some other skills they wouldn’t have got if it hadn’t happened. That’s the frame that a lot of us don’t present with in the world.
Maeve O’Neill 01:54
Right? Right.
Margaret 01:55
I really admire that about you. It’s not like rose colored glasses. It’s reality, I had a lot to contend with, and I’ve made it. My children have had a fortunate life. They haven’t had that. So maybe this will be the next learning curve rather than and oh my gosh, will they be able to, it’s okay.
Maeve O’Neill 02:13
Right?
Margaret 02:13
Here we go got our big challenge. We got to navigate, we’re going to do this and how are we going to do that? What can I do to support you?
Maeve O’Neill 02:19
They both recently entered into the dating world, and each at different times has said to me something about you know, a healthy relationship. And remember being like, I’m so proud that they know what it is or what it isn’t despite maybe we, for a while they had health and they didn’t have healthy parents for a little while. And they had a, you know, a change in the family structure. But they know what healthy is. And that’s what they want in life. One of my biggest, proudest moments, because that’s we all deserve is to find that healthy relationship, and work at it ,and be part of it. And then you know, kind of expect that. So that’s good.
Margaret 02:50
I take a lot of hope from your story. I know my audience will to it. We have choices that we get to make about how we frame, and how we look at, and how we examine the journey of our life and finding that place of compassion, through understanding another person’s history. It’s such a significant piece of it, it sounds like in yours.
03:15
Maeve O’Neill: Yeah, yeah. And I think that does come from early on that, even though our parents weren’t, well. I believe they were proud of us as they saw us kind of navigate life. And as we moved out and moved on, and we all went to school. And even though my mother wasn’t at like my wedding, she was out of the country at the time, exploring whatever world she was exploring. And I had two stand-in moms, two coworkers that I had, who had been great guides in my life. And I remember thinking, you know, she’s losing out here, like I have a loss. But I have these two stand-in moms, and she’s not going to have the chance of being at her daughter’s wedding. So, it’s always that way of finding that compassion for someone else. I think it’s frustrating. Sometimes you just want to be mad and curse them. But I don’t find that serves me well to have that in my heart. So, I’d rather be compassionate Brené Brown calls it generosity, people are doing the best they can. And I want to always lead with that generosity piece.
Margaret 04:11
One of my favorite stories of hers is her husband telling her how he navigates the world. When he comes across people, he believes they’re doing the best they can with a different frame that is.
Maeve O’Neill 04:20
Yes, yes, yes. Because most of us don’t always do our best.
Margaret 04:25
And not always do I approach other people that way. And it’s such a great way and a great lens to do it. I do remember that and try to keep that frame, but life is tough.
Maeve O’Neill 04:34
Yes, yes.
Margaret 04:36
I can’t imagine that your parents aren’t incredibly proud of the three of you for how you’ve come through what they wish you hadn’t.
Maeve O’Neill 04:44
Right,
Margaret 04:45
but couldn’t change.
04:48
Maeve O’Neill: My father passed away, almost a year ago, be last June and before he passed remember he made a call to me one night he said you know; I don’t think we were very good parents. And I was like hmm, part of me like no, you’re not right. But uh, luckily, I was able to be like, oh, you know, I think you did the best you could. And I think there was some good things in there, wish it was different, wish there was like, oh, okay. But I think he needed to know; we weren’t upset with him. And he needed to know that we weren’t angry. And I truly believe that a lot of what they gave us was who we are today in a good way, you know. And the negative could have been better, but also could have been worse. So maybe we’re just grateful for that, and able to kind of see that. And so, when I got my degrees and my licenses and all that, and working in the field, the most transformative thing has been trained in Brené Brown’s work, I got trained in her resilience work about seven years ago. And now I do her leadership training called Dare to Lead. It’s all about resilience and leadership skills. And its sort of like what I hope to be in life is her work, just puts words to it, and gives me the language to use it. So, it’s really cool. Going forward the next 30 years, I hope to add that, and keep spreading that word.
Margaret 05:58
Fabulous. She is quite a remarkable woman, and has given so much to so many, without having disclosed her recovery until later, which I think is also fascinating. Because I remember when I first heard her, I thought, gosh, she speaks a language I’m familiar with.
Maeve O’Neill 06:14
Exactly sounds like.
Margaret 06:16
Yeah. And then she got to the point of sharing her story. And that was really remarkable. So and she’s just tremendous, you know, and, again, you’re a seeker of that source to help you continue your growth and journey, which I think it’s something I strive to also,
Maeve O’Neill 06:33
yes
Margaret 06:33
Do, always be learning, always be growing, always be willing to keep working.
Maeve O’Neill 06:39
Yeah, I think that’s hard because you have to be willing to kind of take that step back and say, well, what, what do I need to learn? What do I need to work on? One of my favorite stories on my son is when he was in high school, the seventh or eighth grade, maybe ninth grade. He’s a football player who would often be up early and off to practice in the morning. And I remember one morning, he came downstairs and I’m always here, and up, and happy. And hey, good morning. I love you. How was your night and that morning, he stopped and said Mom, every morning when I wake up, I come down there you are, you know, perky and happy and asking, and he goes it’s super annoying? Could you not do it, please. And I remember being in first of all, oh, you little you know, crappy, child. I wanted to go down that path, you know, but quickly changed my mind. And I stopped him. I just said, well, you know, I would have killed to have this. I would have killed to have a consistent, predictable loving mother every morning. So, I’m giving you something that I never had. And he kind of stopped me like, oh, he said, oh, this is more for you. Even for me, and he said, well, can you wait till my feet are on the floor. And I’ve gotten like my morning, you know, coffee or something? Before you ask the question. Yes, we can compromise. We can absolutely negotiate this process. But again, it was sort of like, here’s what I need. Here’s what you need. And we’re going to come together.
Margaret 07:57
How brilliant.
Maeve O’Neill 07:58
Yeah. But if you don’t ask her what you need or tell someone that moment could have really divided us as a crappy teenager and a crappy mom. And you know, but instead it joined us together. So, I think it’s those moments of like, this way or that way, where do I want this to go? And I’m very, probably overly aware of those moments and choosing the direction that’s hopefully going to be a good one. But it’s not always easy one.
Margaret 08:20
No, I remember a similar incident with one of mine who’s looked at me my mom, just listen.
Maeve O’Neill 08:29
Don’t counsel, don’t talk.
Margaret 08:32
Yeah. And rather than spiraling into a place, being grateful, they have the voice to do that, because I would have never.
Maeve O’Neill 08:39
Right,
Margaret 08:39
Never done that. It took a moment to realize this is good. Yeah. So, tell us about your career part. You obviously got into the work young, and you’ve evolved over 35 years, I feel great that I’ve made it 25 You look at you. I mean, that’s remarkable. Being in such a demanding and stressful and at times, tragic journey, right? We see a lot of people not find wellness and we lose a lot of people. It’s a hard business. So, what has your evolution been? You mentioned compliance and ethics.
Maeve O’Neill 09:18
Yeah, I spent about 10 years in direct service where I worked pretty much in every population with kids, adolescents, adults, couples, kind of trying a little bit everything out, and then spent about 10 years in management. I ran an intensive outpatient, ran some residential, did some college teaching, a little bit of kind of trying everything. And then some private practice and got into doing some consulting work with some startups or turn arounds, helping treatment centers to do the right thing. And then I ran some executive leadership roles where I ran large regions or large programs and you know that sort of climb up the corporate ladder, and then I burned out.
About 10 years ago is when I kind of hit that burnout phase and luckily after that, I found Brené’s work, which helped me then to put a little more balance and, you know, healthiness into my life. I want to be in this work, and I want to do it, but not at my own sort of expense of not being well. So, then I really made a commitment to have a plan Brené’s work is a big guide for me, but also meditation and yoga and you know, turning off the phone, and not worrying about it and not expressing what I need or what boundaries I need to have in place. I’ve gotten a lot better at that.
And then luckily, with that, about eight years ago, I was given a chance to work in ethics and compliance as a, you know, a specified area of addiction treatment, and I love it, I really found what I want to do for the next 30 years because I think it’s a missing piece, because the job is so hard. And it’s so easy to be as a clinician or administrator of a program just lost in those daily fires, there’s so much with patient acuity, and regulatory requirements, and payer issues, and operational stuff, it’s hard to get ahead and truly what we do in compliance, we prevent, find, and fix issues before that’s a problem. So, I love that because I can bring all my experience and sort of all of my expertise into that and help programs be as good as they can be. That’s what I do. Now I’m certified in health care compliance, and I kind of bring the framework of healthy, happy staff are ethical and compliant, to provide quality and safe care. And we have to do all three of those.
Margaret 11:27
Fantastic and very needed.
Maeve O’Neill 11:29
Because most of our staff are either in recovery, or need recovery, maybe or they’re like us, they come from families or communities, they don’t really know what healthy looks like, you know, they’re survivors like us, and they don’t haven’t had the experience of what a healthy environment looks like. So, I love helping to build healthy cultures and building environments for staff feel heard and safe in those environments.
Margaret 11:51
Thank you, thank you for doing that for those who have the boots on the ground in that work that has evolved and changed so dramatically over just the last 10 years, let alone 25. I thank you for that work and for helping the helpers be healthier.
Maeve O’Neill 12:08
Exactly. Because, you know, what else am I going to do? I’m enrolled in a doctoral program on leadership and my doctoral research topic is going to be exactly that. Is how do we embed happiness and health and compliance and ethics into our systems. So, we can have better outcomes, I think we do a really good job in my 30 years in the field, we do evidence-based practices, we do a lot of good operational things, you know, we’ve got some good funding practices, whatever it is, but we’ve not taken care of our people, I don’t think, to impact the outcomes. And I think if we do that, we might just get better outcomes.
Margaret 12:42
I agree with you. I think that the acuity has changed. I think the stressors have changed from when I used to carry the little file around with my handwritten notes, to clinical documentation and a computer to manage care to insurance to. I love that more people access treatment. That’s huge. And with that came some challenges. And so, diversity, inclusion. And so, I’m very grateful for people like yourself who are looking out for the people who have boots on the ground who are working face to face with clients to find balance, and health, and wellness, and validation for the great work they do.
Maeve O’Neill 13:23
Yeah exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they can do it better and feel better about it when we just take better care of them, and they feel like they’re as important as the patient or the product that we’re providing.
Margaret 13:36
Agreed.
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper: Do you love someone who you’re in a partnership with who has the disease of addiction? Have you been in a partnership with someone who has the disease of addiction and you’re struggling with how to move forward in your own life knowing the disease has imprinted on the way you navigate the world? If either of these, are you, please know you’re not alone.
This was exactly how I entered my recovery over 2 decades ago. I needed help, I needed support, I needed to be with people who understood what I was going through and honestly, I needed education because I did not truly understand what I had been dealing with in my relationship with an addict, nor did I know how to heal from it. Nor did I know some of the qualities that I had brought into the relationship that did not assist me in being healthy in that relationship.
If you’re interested in being with others on this journey, if you’d like to come to a place where you could receive coaching, strategizing, support and community, look no further.
I am honored and excited to be starting the Embraced Family Recovery Partner Coaching Group. With the success of the parent coaching group which is an ongoing group where people come and go as they need, I’m going to begin a partner group in the same fashion. A twice monthly virtual 90-minute coaching group that runs consecutively and people can join as they need or want, and it is an ongoing recovery community where we can dive into specific topics and have guests on who can share their stories.
If this is something you think would help you in your journey check it out, go to my website embracefamilyrecovery.com and register to join this group.
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never miss a show by hitting the subscribe button. Now back to the show.
Margaret: So, tell us about ‘All Sober.’ I am very excited to let my audience know about this and whomever it will be valuable to. So, tell us about that because that is something you do as well as your doctorate and as well as your compliance and ethics or how does that all work?
Maeve O’Neill 15:04
Well, yeah, the doctorate luckily, it’s an asynchronous program. So that’s the evenings and weekends, I get to do that work. It’s built for working professionals. So, we’re all very much, you know, five o’clock on, that’s what we’re doing. And weekends, that’s what we do so that’s built for us, our kind of folks. But also, there is a wonderful platform that I get to work with right now. And there are a wonderful group of people who found out of their own personal experience in their family, a loved one went through addiction, and they as not in this field. They’re from the advertising sales and marketing side. So this was hard, we had to Google this and that and get to, you know, find these things sort of by accident. So, their dream was to build a platform that would all be in one place. So, they spent the last couple of years building this platform, and I help advise them on making sure they have all the right resources there, all the right information that it makes sense from a recovery standpoint, in the addiction field. This is the information that people need, whether they’re someone looking for treatment. If I want to go and say I’m looking for myself, a loved one looking to find help for someone in their family, as well as for those that do the work. So, to me, it becomes an aftercare planning platform, I can go on there and find a counselor, find a sober home, find a meeting, as well as just find some really cool articles and content, that give me understanding, and awareness of what the disease and recovery look like. But also, some inspiration, we’ve got some really cool celebrities, and music folks, and artists on there who are in long term recovery, who share their stories.
So, it’s really neat and in my 30 years in the field. I’ve seen lots of people kind of try to do this.
Margaret: Yes,
Maeve O’Neill: but they’re the first ones I’ve seen that kind of really want to help break the stigma by bringing it all in one place.
Margaret: Fabulous,
Maeve O’Neill: using their creative, you know, artistic selves to bring it to life in a different kind of way, not heavy on the academic or scientific side. But just speaking person to person, someone who knows nothing about the addiction and recovery, because we talk all these, you know, big words that we use.
Margaret 16:59
We have our own language to be honest. I mean, we do.
Maeve O’Neill 17:02
Yes, I do think we’re part of the problem by making it so difficult or making it seem so foreign. So, I’m excited to help them and help them to build that and become a resource, we hope in the community all around.
Margaret 17:15
And do they have speaking for my audience? Do they have resources on there for family members who want their own recovery?
Maeve O’Neill 17:24
Yeah, there’s a section called for family and friends. And we’ve got some support groups also on there. And there’s one just specifically for families and friends having to go in there. And, and I think there’s a lot of great articles, there’s a lot of great videos and content out there, there’s a couple of the contributors are from the family side, not just the patient side. So, it really if someone knows of a resource, let us know, we’ll be happy to add them. Put them in there get you on there. Absolutely. It’s sort of like, it was described to me like it’s like an ecosystem of recovery.
Margaret 17:54
Yeah, it sounds fabulous.
Maeve O’Neill 17:56
I don’t want to Google this, and then go to that link, and that link and that link, and then I forgot how I got there.
Margaret 18:00
That’s fabulous. The other thing that has happened, and I’m assuming this would rule this out, I had a lovely family that I worked with, who were very new to this, and sought help and went on to the website, searched up the facility, they wanted to go and get an assessment through, got on a phone call through I think a click button. And it wasn’t that treatment center. And they spilled their whole story without knowing. And were so violated in that because this was not their intention. So again, this would be an avenue that they could go and when they seek something that is what they seek rather than this link bait to an assessment center trying to get them to go to treatment somewhere else.
Maeve O’Neill 18:46
Right exactly. So, we have the treatment finder on there that’s linked to SAMSHA, the federal government’s database, which is probably the most accurate information, it’s not a Google search, where people pay to be higher up or they even in the last 10 years, there’s been a lot of hijacking of websites or information, or phone numbers and you get redirected.
Margaret 19:05
Exactly what happened to them. It was terrible. And they made it they got to where they needed to go. But the feeling of like, I just filled my whole story to people that I didn’t know we’re not who I thought they were, is awful.
Maeve O’Neill 19:19
It is awful. I had a similar situation not too long ago, that was different. I tried to book a hotel room.
Margaret: Oh, yeah.
Maeve O’Neill: But it wasn’t to the hotel. And I was like, this is what it feels like when someone’s looking for treatment and they get hijacked. I got hijacked to some other site and couldn’t get my money back and it’s awful. It’s a violation.
Margaret 19:35
It’s a violation. And it’s not clear. They don’t announce it right up front, so you know what you’re doing. And obviously I’ve had that happen with the hotel too. My thing is that’s one level. But when I’m sitting there crying about what tragic events have led to me finally getting help as a consumer or wanting help for someone, I’m scared to death is dying in front of me. I don’t want to be not talking to who I asked to talk to or feel I’m supposed to talk to you. That’s just horrifying to me.
Maeve O’Neill 20:05
Yes. And there’s definitely legislation out there, we hope is being remedied. Certainly, someone finds that we should report it. But I think it’s hard to stay ahead of it. And it’s hard to fix it, there’s always new ways to do that. It’s very unfortunate.
Margaret 20:18
Kind of like the creation of chemicals for people to, you know, we get things that are classed as this or this then they tweak something. And now it’s not. The whole synthetic opiate, I mean marijuana, spice and all of that bath salts, you know, it’s just it’s exhausting for people.
So, I love the idea of getting back to ‘All Sober,’ that they can go to a place where it is legitimate, it is monitored it is to make it easier for them. What a concept for families, or people wanting help to find it an easier journey. So how does one go? Do they just go to ‘All Sober’?
Maeve O’Neill 20:56
Yep, Allsober.com is the platform, it’s also in the app store, you can find also an app for it as well, and very similar experiences on the two modes to get there.
Margaret: Is that a free app,
Maeve O’Neill: They’re both free, yep, they’re free for anyone to use it, everything is free to explore all the information, if they wanted to join the groups or the community, they just need to put an email in. And again, it can just be an anonymous email, there’s still no charge for that. It just allows them to sort of agree to the confidentiality and rules of the groups and that kind of thing. And then once you’re in the platform, you can join the support groups you can join to follow some of our partners, like I said the artists and celebrities, some treatment centers are on there, and you can follow them. And you can kind of just the updates and events that are going on and activities, they’re going to kind of surrounding yourself on this platform. Rather than getting no I love Facebook, I love LinkedIn always want to, but sometimes they get you in subjects we don’t need to go to and go shopping on Facebook marketplace rather than focus on what I should be doing on my doctoral program, right.
Margaret 22:00
So another piece of that that’s probably a component that would be wonderful for newly recovering people, is to find sober allies, sober social events, sober activities, you know, so that they know that there is a life beyond what they once lived. Because many people are in early recovery, are like, now what I’m gonna go sit at home and knit for the rest of my life in meetings and home. That’s my life, you know, which we know is not the case. Recovery has much to offer. And it’s changed a lot also, I mean, coffee shops were huge. But now there are actual bars that are alcohol free.
Maeve O’Neill 22:37
I love it. It’s so exciting. Yeah. And our founders, Paul and Flora would tell you that when their loved one got into recovery, that was one of the things that was said was, well, I have no life now, I guess I had nothing to do. So, part of this was to build a community, there are things to do, we’ve got some pretty cool, inspirational, whether it’s what to cook, what to do, where to go for fun, and some great partners that are joining us that give you other options for life in recovery.
Margaret: Wonderful. So, I’m so excited to introduce that resource to my family so that they can look that up or share it with their loved ones who can choose to look it up or find it. Anything else that you want to share about ‘All Sober’ or your story that you haven’t shared?
Maeve O’Neill: Well, no for all summer, I would say follow us. We’re on all the big social media, Facebook, Instagram, we recently hit in January, like a million impressions from one of our stories. So, we really try to be out there and being a positive voice of what recovery can look like. So, follow us on all those and hopefully, you’ll see some things that inspire you.
For me, I’m just incredibly grateful on this journey meeting people like you who are out there doing that work. And we know the great organizations that are out there and these supports, I feel like we’ve come a long way in my life, and I can’t wait to see where it is, you know, as the next 30 years we see, hopefully, stigma is reduced. Hopefully we have more resources for people. Now we have more online treatments and meetings and all of that. I just feel like it’s gonna be cool to look back and say, okay, I was part of that movement. And part of that change.
Early on as a child of addiction, you know, it was a movement, it was an active, we have to name this, we have to be able to talk about this. So, I’m excited to see that movement isn’t really necessary anymore, we all know is a family disease. We all know that kids and loved ones everyone deserves recovery and support. So, as we expand that into the rest of the universe, hopefully we can just keep serving more people and getting more people well.
Margaret 24:31
Maeve, I thank you for the woman that you are, and that your story has impacted and created you, as well as the work you’ve done, to evolve through your journey. And all that you have done in your professional career but also, I hear it in your family, your personal life to change the narrative and make this less stigmatized, less shame based, and absolutely something we can be healthy, wonderful, well, human beings. We often hear the sad stories, you know, which are legitimate and terrible. And there are lots of recovering people in this world. And the getting that out to people is important.
Maeve O’Neill 25:13
So important!
Margaret 25:14
that we can come through stories, and we can heal, and we can provide and give back. You were wired that way from a very young age, and you follow your dreams and made it happen. And I’m just very grateful to have met you. And I thank you for your willingness to share your story with this audience. It’s wonderful. Thank you.
Maeve O’Neill 25:32
Thanks for having me. And thanks for all you’re doing.
Margaret 25:34
You’re welcome. You too, and good luck with that PhD.
Maeve O’Neill 25:37
Thank you. I’ll see in three years.
Margaret 25:39
I’m exhausted hearing your story, all that you do. But you know what, we’re all wired differently. And obviously, you come from people who like to learn, and you will very much did that in your whole career. So well-done, I’m grateful for you. Grateful for you being out there.
Maeve O’Neill 25:57
Thank you so much.
Outro: Thank you, Maeve O’Neill, for dedicating your career to improving the opportunities and access to treatment for people with the disease of addiction which comes from such an organic place in you of having been impacted by the disease in your family of origin. Not only do you have a passion for clients seeking services, you have a mission to help the helpers who are working with those clients. I love the opportunity to meet people in all walks of this field and Maeve you were a gift. Thank you so much. Please come back next time where we move into our next guest of the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast.
Margaret 26:30
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website,
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
