Welcome back to the final episode of Season 4 of the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Today, we conclude our conversation with Terra Carbert, sharing her personal experiences with gambling addiction and recovery. Terra highlights the value of having a sponsor and participating in therapy.
Terra also discussed the need for safe and inclusive online and offline spaces and the potential benefits of online meetings for bridging the gap for those lacking access to in-person meetings.
Additionally, they discussed the availability and effectiveness of treatment centers, emphasizing the need for more research funding, licensed gambling-specific treatment, and peer recovery support services.
Let’s return to Terra Carbert, the founder of the Self Discovery Sisterhood, coach, and host of the Ambitious Addicts podcast.
#embracefamilyrecovery #recovery #gamblingaddiction #ambitiousaddicts #coach #selfdiscoverysisterhood #addictionrecovery #addictionawareness #addictiontreatment #addictions #familyrecovery #familyrecoverycoach #familyrecoverycoaching #familyaddiction #familyaddictionrecovery #recoverysupport #recoverysupportgroup #recoverysupportservices #womenpodcaster #podcast #addictionpodcast #recoverypodcast #recoverystories #recoverycommunity #YouTubechannel
See full transcript below.
00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of Addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast and today I’m continuing my conversation with Terra Carbert a coach, the founder of Self-discovery Sisterhood and the host of the Ambitious Addicts podcast. In this final episode she shares how to set boundaries with someone with a gambling addiction and dives into the various support and recovery options and challenges that are available to help people with gambling addiction.
00:56
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast.
Margaret 01:11
What does gambling recovery look like? You touched on it, but I think let’s educate me and others about what that looks like, so it is not engaging in a free or paid activity where there’s a chance to win or lose. Is that fair?
Terra Carbert 01:26
Yeah, for skill or for a chance? Yeah. So, I think a lot of people see blackjack as like a skill game, even though it’s early a chance game. So, and poker is probably considered a skill game and not a chance game, even though it’s still a chance game.
I mean, it means like, no lotto, no raffle. And this is one that, like, as a business owner, I have to check myself on too, like no contest, so I have a Facebook page, right? And one great way to generate leads is host a contest or a giveaway, right? I I’m not putting my name in for those things. I’m not buying raffle tickets. So that’s the gambling definition. And I think each person gets to define, you know, what they consider a risk for them, but that’s no placing bets. That’s what that looks like in in my world, and that means no fantasy football either. And I used to be on a league, and loved it, you know, but I gave up, you know, the like, especially nowadays with online gambling and being able to do that daily, I’m really grateful to have given it up before these things.
The question was, what does recovery look like? I’ve also been in other 12 step meetings, and wouldn’t necessarily call myself a member, but I qualify for others. I’m in a 12-step program for gambling specifically. So, my recovery looks a lot like 12 step recovery in other programs with some slight modifiers. So, the biggest modifier that stands out to me is our fourth step. Our fourth step is a searching and fearless moral and financial inventory, so we do a lot of digging around in our relationship with money, in particular, which everyone should do.
Margaret 03:14
Right, that was what I was kind of sidetracked by, like, wow, that’s kind of important for every one of us, because money is factor in all of our addictions, on family side, or
Terra Carbert 03:24
the other thing that I think notably in this step, just the language, right? God, as we understood him, I think, is how we’re phrased. I don’t know that that’s the case in every place.
Margaret 03:35
That is mostly me, yeah. But I love that, because it’s very easy to put it as a God thing and a certain doctrine of faith?
Terra Carbert: Yeah, yeah,
Margaret: The founding fathers was beyond their years and their culture to be able to say that knowing their audience, because it is very inclusive for people who don’t identify with God that is not their higher power. And I think that’s really remarkable, when you historically look at the 30s and a group of men sitting around making this, the tenants of the 12 steps. They are quite forward thinking, they knew they audience.
Terra Carbert 04:13
Yeah, interestingly, the tenants of the 12 step have some Native American tradition roots and healing circles,
Margaret: Right?
Terra Carbert: So, yeah, so that’s a history that I think deserves some light to it too,
Margaret: Agreed,
Terra Carbert: yeah, yeah, but it’s a lot like other 12 step programs, same you know, I have a sponsor that I meet with regularly, and I do I participate in therapy, in those meetings, cool, fun stuff that’s going on in the world now, you know, sometimes that’s on Zoom, which is like a positive thing, I think, from the pandemic, one thing
Margaret 04:52
One thing that came out of it that I think was positive when you look at because you shared it. 16, your son was growing you’re older,
Terra Carbert 05:05
Yeah, in 2016 he had just graduated high school.
Margaret 05:09
So, if you’re comfortable answering this, if not, I get it, was he able to share any awareness of the impact on him?
Terra Carbert 05:17
I’m still trying to sort out if he’s being kind and gracious. Or if it really didn’t have as big of an impact in his mind as it did in my heart, when I look at it. He’d want to obviously, I told him, like we were living together. Um, he he said, well, of course, close has like 1000 of these player cards laying around that house. Like, yeah, of course, you have a problem, you know. And, yeah, I’ve noticed you go more and, you know, I was, he was old enough and maybe just contributed, you know, like the mom about to be an empty nester. And it’s like a whole other emotional thing. I didn’t want to actually look at
For him, what he says is, like, a lot of that time that I was starting to just leave and be like, oh, can you get your own dinner? I’ll be back. Or, you know, I’m 10/15, minutes late to a baseball game or something, because I can’t pull myself away. Was like, yeah, I don’t know. I appreciated the independence. I thought, you know, like he’s late teens, and I’m leaving him home alone, and he can do whatever he wants. So, I don’t know that he’s thought of like neglect, as I see it, there’s opportunities for parenting that, you know I kind of wish I would have done that. I feel like I’m trying to do now, and he gets kind of like over it, like whatever mom too late, you know, but he’s also seen me in recovery, and seen how recovery has changed my life, and that has elevated, in my opinion, his emotional intelligence and his willingness to talk about the hard stuff and the hard days in a way that I never would have.
Margaret 06:59
I like that. I like the spotlighting, yes, there was neglect that I feel he may not. What I can absolutely see is in improvement and impression and awareness due to recovery of change. So that’s really hopeful for families to hear that. You know, we don’t really know what our kids feel or don’t feel, unless they are able to be honest, and some will be protective, and some may not have noticed, and some were very much affected. What we also absolutely know, and evidence shows it, in recovery in homes, is the positive impacts of recovery on the whole family are significant.
Terra Carbert 07:36
Yeah, we’re breaking some generational stuff here too, right? So, there’s open dialog about risk. There’s open dialog about how you know he needs to be mindful for himself of the warning signs and open dialog about like, how a lot of it has to do is just making sure we have a way to constructively manage our emotional experience in this world. That is a huge benefit that I see. And you know, there’s choices he’s making his life that if I was to make about substances or friends, that, you know, I might make differently if I was in charge. But I also get a place of acceptance that he charged his own life.
Margaret 08:19
What I do when I’m struggling with that is, remember he has a higher power, it’s not me sure
Terra Carbert 08:23
Sure does that is the best. Yeah, so like my sponsor and I about it, like, how can we look at this from a third step perspective? Yes.
Margaret 08:34
I also think one of the Grayson and Hume, you not humility. Yeah, humility is where was I at that age?
Terra Carbert 08:48
Yes, so much, right? And what kind of relationship
Margaret 08:53
Can I add some grace to that and be grateful for the changes that I’ve been able to work on, not that I’m perfect, but that it makes me more present and available to my children in a healthier way. Thank you, recovery. Do I still have shame about my behavior of neglect and outrageous emotional roller coasters and the other stuff that were going on when I was using? Yes. Can I change that no, but by God, I cannot do it again by one day at a time in this program? And so, you know, that’s the key of, how do we find that sweet spot of really allowing ourselves to see some of the hope and the growth.
Terra Carbert 09:28
Totally, yeah.
Margaret 09:31
From your experience, Tara, and from the work of talking to many people in recovery on your podcast and your work. Are there good treatment centers out there for gambling addiction, like, what’s available? Because I have people call and ask for help for all sorts of things like, what are you aware of for treatment? And are you pleased? Would you like to see more?
Terra Carbert 09:56
So, I’m aware of Vanguard here in Minnesota. Project Turnabout. I’m aware of CORE but I don’t have I don’t have first-hand recounting from other people of what their experiences were like. I can tell you that people do not get necessarily consistent experiences when they call Problem Gambling helplines. That every state treat Problem Gambling differently, both from treatment providing and from a funding of treatment providing. We do not have peer recovery support services available in the way that they do for other addictions. There’s a lot to be desired in both research and treatment of problem gambling disorder. I know many people, anecdotally, who had terrible experience with licensed addictions counselors. And I had a bad therapy experience once. I don’t know if I call bad, but not so great. Could have, could have missed an opportunity for a screening that harm is created in some of the therapy sessions, like dismissing their gambling is like, they might say they want to talk about their gambling and like, just redirected like, oh, that’s not your problem. It’s kind of tragic.
And at the scale of which sports betting and online gaming is becoming legalized in the state of Minnesota, and the prevalence of this talk of the sports betting on and in and during broadcasts and at the games we know about broadcasters, you know, talking over unders and point spreads and the lines, even for college games.
I hope to see much, much more research funding, and we don’t have enough licensed, no in gambling specific treatment at this time. So, if you are somebody who cares about the disease of addiction, you work in the profession like, go get gambling certified. Go get gambling certified. It’s not identical. It’s not the exact same thing. There are things that in the treatment need to be thought about a little bit differently than if, say, we’re talking a substance, the behavioral addictions are, they’re just different in my personal experience.
So, I’m trying to do you’re trying to do, be part of that solution and do a little advocacy and talk about it. And yet I find myself personally too, like I know, like there’s a line that I for my own self-care, like I can’t talk gambling all day every day. Just can’t. I’ve tried, and so I’ll do some advocacy. I don’t see myself getting licensed, although I know I could contribute some help. I just, I don’t want to talk gambling all day, every day. It’s not good for me.
So, there’s a lack of resources, and at the same time, an odd thing I do, sit on a Minnesota Department of Human Services Problem Gambling Advisory Council. And at the same time, you know, there’s a lot of referrals that are being made to some of these inpatient treatment centers, and they’re not full, so what is going on, right? And I think, if I think about my own personal experience, thing that was on my mind the most was the money. So, I could not imagine a world where I stopped earning for 30 days and I went to an inpatient facility. The inpatient facilities are all 30 days, and they all also require you to live a dry life.
So, if you have problem gambling disorder, but you don’t have a problem relationship with alcohol, and you want to have glass of wine on Friday, you might choose something else. There’s more outpatient stuff coming up, and then not, the insurance stuff is a little weird. We’re on the DSM five now grouped in which is the, for those who might not know, the manual that is used for diagnosing mental disorders. And you know, I don’t know that all the insurance companies have got, got onboard or the employee assistance programs, and again, peer counseling, peer advisory being shown to be something that really works for other treatment, and yet, at least in my state, there’s not funding for peer recovery service. I just said a whole lot.
Margaret 14:13
It was good. You know, when you talk about, I can’t do this all day, every day, talking about gambling, what a incredible voice you afford to the industry of working with people with a disease of addiction, add in gambling, to hear from you. People who are out there clinically, go get certified. We need you. It’s different. There are nuances that you need training for. And I feel that.
I mean full disclosure; Harry Levant was a gentleman. I spoke to who I adore, and he taught me so much, I feel you’re that next step, because I am a person who is working as a Master’s counselor who didn’t even have addiction training. And people were coming into my office, I’d be just, you know, just stop. And then ended up getting the education and the training at Hazelden that gave me the understanding of this disease. But I’ll be fully transparent, it’s not exactly the same, and I wouldn’t even feel right working with a person with a gambling addiction as a primary addiction, that I would do justice to their care, because I am lacking. So I think that’s a really loud message that needs to be heard by more clinicians in the field.
Terra Carbert 15:29
There’s a lot of grants available too. So, if you’re working an institution that provides mental health services and treatment services, a lot of states now have grants available to get your existing LADC certified in Problem Gambling disorder treatment. So, check it out, see if your state is offering a grant for that. I know we are in Minnesota.
Margaret 15:53
Fabulous information.
15:55
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Margaret 16:00
When I reflect on my decades of work with families of people with the disease of addiction, I have seen few siblings get the same resources provided partners, parents or even children.
Numerous siblings have told me they felt they couldn’t share in a traditional Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meeting because the parents and partners pain seems so much more significant than their own.
The embrace family recovery coaching group for siblings will meet for six group, coaching sessions, including education on the no fault disease, connection with other siblings, strategizing together, communication, boundary setting and some surprise guests who are siblings themselves.
This summer course for siblings begins Tuesday, July 16, and the group will be for participants ages 16 years and older.
To find out more, head to my website or hit the link that you’ll find in my show notes below
The Embrace Family Recovery Sibling Coaching Group.
17:03
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Margaret 17:15
Do you think interventions work for people with gambling?
Terra Carbert 17:18
No idea. I didn’t have one. You know what I think would work, though that’s not being done, would and we’re talking, you know, those, those who I talk gambling stuff with, or talking about this like this.
We’re screening for depression, we are screening for addiction to drugs and alcohol, and we’re screening for safety in the home, we could do a two-question screen that would give an indication if somebody might need a pamphlet of resources. We do not screen for Problem Gambling Disorder. I went to four therapy sessions where I talked about my gambling and was told, sounds like, you have it under control. There was never any questions about my gambling. But I was asked about my history extensively, relationship with alcohol and drugs, and sex, and abuse. No gambling was just so how do we incorporate some screening into the already well-established intake process that’s being done in healthcare settings?
Margaret 18:29
So, I imagine there’s people listening who are partners, parents, siblings, maybe kids who know that their loved one is spiraling out of control with gambling?
Terra Carbert: Yeah,
Margaret: Your brother offered you something that really just gave you permission, if you like, to go that next step. Before that happened, you reached a very near high-risk bottom where suicide was a very real thought. Thankfully, you didn’t act on it and you called him instead. We know the risk is great for suicide. What would you give for families for if I were your child or I were your partner, here’s what I would want somebody to say or do around me to help me be aware or look at it different, or maybe seek help if I’m not asking for it.
Terra Carbert 19:31
Yeah, like if you know they’re gambling, because that’s the difference with me. Like no one really knew I gambled that they didn’t know, know that I was gambling, right? But if you know someone gambling, and their family is escalating. Just an honest conversation like I noticed you’re betting more. I noticed you seem kind of stressed out. I noticed you’re, tell them honestly about what they’re noticing, but try to do that from a place of love, caring, and understanding and not judgment. Obviously, I can’t guarantee that someone’s going to hear it that way. Just let them know, like I love you, I care about you. I’m here for you. You can talk to me about anything, assuming that that’s true, that you can talk to them about anything. Or that if you’ve got something you don’t want to talk to me about, I’d love to help you find a resource to support you. Is there anything I can do to help you through that it seems like something’s wrong, and I care about and I love you.
I think in my depths of my disease, the shame was heavy. And I mean that that word in the sense of the Breneé Brown definition of shame, is that sense of not belonging. I really was starting to feel like I didn’t belong anywhere, even with my family.
So, if you can instill that sense of belonging in them, you know, I think that might, that might be a good thing. And then, of course, you gotta have boundaries and be taking care of yourself too. So, Gam-Anon on is a great resource for loved ones who are affected by the gambling addiction of other people. A lot of states have resources available to loved ones affected by addiction to gambling. I would say the East Coast in particular has really, really solid services. Though, if you’re on the East Coast and you’re in Connecticut or New Jersey or New York, that there’s some resources that those teams have put together that are, I think, pretty darn good given how little there actually are.
Here in Minnesota, I would say that they’re decent too, but I certainly don’t have, you know, I’m not the be all end on these things. But I would say, you know, make sure that you’re caring for yourself, because without caring for yourself, you can’t be a great support to somebody who needs your support in seeking treatment for their addiction. So that’s definitely what I’d want, almost more importantly, like, make sure you’re taking care of you before you try to be taken care of them.
Margaret 22:07
You touched on boundaries, again this is if the person knows there is a gambling addiction.
Terra Carbert: Yeah.
Margaret: I’ve used the term detach with love. I change to caring without fixing what fits other people, we can care for them greatly. We do that with protection from their disease. One of the ones that I have heard over time, and I would love your input on and your experience on is and it happens with substance use disorders as well, not just gambling, but I would think gambling, it’s a prevalent piece is partners being terrified of financial security. If they don’t set a boundary, do something drastic, get a divorce, whatever the terminology works for them, wherever they are, I’m going to lose everything. Or if I try and separate, I’m going to lose everything, you know. So, what’s your take on boundaries, consequences around gambling, like, how could a partner navigate that to enable themselves to be healthy and well as possible, while also being loving and supportive with protection from the disease.
Terra Carbert 23:24
Yeah, situationally, I would say, if you’re mixing money with a gambler separate it immediately. That is a boundary that you are allowed to have for yourself, and you don’t feel safe doing that. Get yourself the help you need to feel safe setting that boundary, money is the fuel for our addiction, as are valuable things. I did get to the point where I sold some things. So, you know, lock up your treasures, and that can be in the form of, you know, trinkets of value or cash, and make sure that you are the only one who has access to them in whatever way you need to do that. Obviously, if you’re married to the individual, that might look very differently than if you’re cohabiting, or if it’s a brother, sister, you know, somebody who’s maybe sharing a Family Trust Fund. Everyone has different circumstances but cut off the intermingling with funds immediately. That’s a boundary that can be implemented to protect from the person’s disease, for sure.
Margaret 24:27
Your word was allowed. And I like that, because I don’t think, excuse me, family members, think of what is okay for them and not okay for them. It’s always what’s okay for the person and not the person. What’s going to upset them, right? So,
Terra Carbert: Yeah,
Margaret: it’s a survival step. It’s okay. I know there’s a disease that will take every penny, every trinket,
Terra Carbert: Everything.
Margaret: So, I am allowed to protect those from the disease.
Terra Carbert 24:53
Yeah, and you’ll get a whole lot of noise. I mean, this happens a lot of times, when we’re boundaries and people are protecting the addiction. So it happens, right, that sometimes people might show up with their opinions be like, how dare you? You should have joint checking accounts. You should, you should, you know, get yourself the support that you need to ensure that that’s a boundary you’re able to implement so your livelihood is at the least in the least risky position as possible.
The other thing I would say about boundaries for a gambler, you know, and this, just all of this obviously, highly depends on the kind of relationship you have with that individual. But you know, I was, as I said, not falling to wrong commitments, you know, a boundary that a friend of mine, a friend who really has a strong kind of time discipline in their own life, just kind of sat with me, was like, hey, if you’re not going to make it within 10 minutes at the time that we said we were getting together, I’m leaving, and we don’t get the time together, like I want to spend the time with you. I love you. But if you’re going to do this to me, I’m out, like, I’m leaving. And if this keeps happening, if you don’t show for two or three times, I’m going to stop inviting you, and you’ll have to tell me when you’re able to try to schedule things with me again, because I’ve been initiating, right? So, it’s, it’s a little different, right? Because, like, that’s a good friend who had no like, I love you no matter what. I don’t know what the hell is going on with you, but you’re not, you’re late, you’re not calling me back. This is happening, yeah? So, boundaries are for you. Like, that’s my message about boundaries. They are for you, and you don’t have to explain them to anyone. It’s up to you to have them and to hold them, and to trust yourself that you know what you need, is that easy, not as easy as spitting the words out of my mouth, that’s for sure. It’s work, its work.
Margaret 26:57
What is tremendous friend, to be that loving to you.
Terra Carbert 27:04
Yeah, you kind of suck right now, and I’m sick of you sucking. So, here’s what I’m going to do about it.
Margaret 27:08
Didn’t say that, yeah. Said I love you and I want to spend time with you when you can make it. Let’s do it. I’ll give you 10 minutes if you’re not here. I’m going to I’m going to take off.
Terra Carbert 27:18
I’m going to bounce. So, I don’t get resentful because I like she knew herself well enough too that if she stayed and waited and looked at the clock right, that she was going to be getting resentful 10 minutes. No big deal like get myself coffee or water, whatever.
Margaret 27:36
I think Terra, you just said something that’s very key to this, all of this, no matter the addiction, for the loved ones, for the affected family members, affected loved ones. Doing our own work in that role, to know ourselves well enough and have the support necessary to set boundaries that are appropriate for us, that we follow through with, that we know we can live with, that we have support to go to when they do come back with noise. So, I think that just is a resounding message for all families and loved ones, that the disease of addiction will get ugly, will get noisy, will get balshy, will try to blame, shame, lie, twist. That’s the way the disease works in all of us. And as a loved one, to protect our heart, who, at the end of the day is what’s driving the desire to be helpful, is to know yourself and to have your network of support, to support you.
Terra Carbert 28:40
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There’s an online resource, gamblersinrecovery.com that I would say, has kind of a catch all for gamblers and the families with a lot of different resources listed, but individually, at the state level, you can find stuff too, I don’t want to miss mentioning that website. And then we talked earlier about, just briefly, about women and gambling.
Margaret: Yeah,
Terra Carbert: So, if it’s okay, I’d like to plug a resource for that
Margaret: Love all these resources are great, absolutely awesome.
Terra Carbert: So, my friend Christina hosts a podcast called The Broke Girls Society and a Facebook group of the same. It is all women working towards or actively living in recovery from gambling,
Margaret 29:22
Very good. Do you think it’s different for women in recovery with gambling than men? Is there a network for sponsorship and enough people to reach out to, to help you?
Terra Carbert 29:36
For me? Yes, I was pretty fortunate that room I walked into with about 50/50, but I have walked into rooms that I’m the only woman, I think, where having a women’s preferred, as we would call it, or a women’s only meeting, is beneficial. Is a part of what we need to unpack from our past or even our present, has to do with the way we were treated by the opposite sex. And in terms of sponsorship. Again, I was fortunate. I hear women struggling to find sponsorship. I hear women struggling to find belonging in meetings. I hear women share stories of highly male populated recovery settings where they don’t feel safe. And so, I think there’s this separately, this perception that all women gamblers do the same type of gambling. You know, it’s just the network, escape gamblers and not action gamblers. And this, this to have a space that’s all women who can talk about womanhood and recovery. Something really special about that. So, I personally had a good experience, but I hear that’s not the case for everybody.
Margaret 30:44
And back to your point about one of the benefits of Covid was zoom and access. So, I would assume, again, correct me, if I’m wrong, that it afforded, even within gambling addiction meetings, some maybe more varied, more locations, more options, and gender specific.
Terra Carbert 31:03
Yeah, and even, I mean, we can speak broadly about all the, all the populations that might need safe spaces, right? Safe or brave spaces. So, yeah, I would say LGBTQIA meetings that I’ve seen emerge online, black meetings, black women specific meetings. You know, we all have these things that we experience the world uniquely as a result of our lived experience. And so, online gave the ability for the disparate, you know, geographically disparate people to find one another. And I think this is true for the family members who need support too. You know the impacted others by gambling addiction. Go find your people who are going to get you and be able to relate to you. And if you need that to happen in multifaceted ways because of what’s available online, it’s just easier to find your people.
Margaret 31:59
Agree and isn’t it nice to know that we have access to more meetings where we can find our people?
Terra Carbert 32:05
Oh, man, I spent, like, months on clubhouse, finding all sorts of people in recovery. I’m like, what is this I did a whole episode on that.
Margaret 32:15
I know for me when I started my journey. You know, it’s almost as the dinosaurs were just coming out at some point. But I was in rural Wisconsin and finding an Al-Anon meeting that had more than two people, or finding women sponsors or finding meetings period. And I think that’s one of the evolutions that has come to be a beneficial and a growth and a positive. We have more information, we have more diversity, we have more inclusivity. We have more period. We’re talking about it more. It’s destigmatized because we’re talking about it more.
Terra Carbert: Yeah.
Margaret: It doesn’t feel so scary to go to a Zoom meeting, maybe first, if I’m not ready to find one an hour from my house, at least I know I can hit one in a meeting. Or I can use that as my backup, because I have a home group that I go to in person. It’s just nice to know that something good came out of something so difficult when we went through the pandemic.
Terra Carbert 33:15
Yeah, and how that maybe can shape the future of mental health care too. I mean, obviously lots systemically to do to actually open up borders, if that’s what we see is needed in the country. But, you know, I think it just opens up a lot of, a lot of opportunity for more healing,
Margaret 33:35
Which is what we all want, right?
Terra Carbert: Yeah,
Margaret: To find wellness, whatever way works for us.
Terra Carbert: Right.
Outro: Thank you, Terra Carbert. What a powerful series offering such vital information about gambling addiction and the affected loved ones around the person with the disease.
With summer schedules, vacations and playing in the lovely weather this episode concludes season four of the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, but don’t worry season five will be back soon.
Please take advantage of the summer break to catch up on episodes you missed and share the podcast with friends and family.
Get in touch if you have any topics you would like to hear discussed in the future, I would love your input. I am so grateful to all of you who’ve listened, subscribed, shared, and watched I also have such gratitude for each and every guest who has courageously shared their story with us.
Please email me if you wish to be a future guest or with recommendations of topics or people to be guests at margaret@nullembracefamilyrecovery.com
Enjoy your summer and be sure to play!
I want to thank my guests for their courage and vulnerability in sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website,
This is Margaret swift Thompson, until next time, please take care of you.
