Today, I conclude my conversation with Heather Tidwell; I have enjoyed talking with another professional serving people with Substance Use Disorder and their loved ones with such passion.
We discuss how addiction is the opposite of connection and the importance of understanding and navigating reactive emotions as a family in recovery, recognizing your pain as an affected loved one, and understanding the rawness of emotions with newly sober people.
I am grateful for the time Heather spent with us and for the wisdom and passion she shared.
Learn more about Heather Tidwell and her team at B&G Counseling Services in North and South Carolina.
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See full transcript below.
00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now, here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Margaret 00:26
Welcome back. In today’s podcast episode, we conclude our conversation. Heather Tidwell and I will be discussing addiction being the opposite of connection. And we will look at the importance of understanding and navigating reactive emotions as a family in recovery.
00:51
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret 01:08
I remember you showing me when we were talking, a little demo with a water bottle, do you remember that you have an amazing way of teaching things. So I hope you give people that clinically other clinicians, I hope you do that in your work because you have a really nice way of articulating and teaching. So just a shout out to you of when you describe.
Heather Tidwell 01:31
Oh thank you. I appreciate that. The analogy with the water bottle, I actually got from Dr. Gentry. He’s one of the like gurus on trauma, and how trauma relates to like addiction. He’s also one of the ones that he says in his trainings, that addiction is the opposite of connection. And what he kind of looks at is, again, is the correlation from trauma, and how that trauma monster can kind of breed into, like this substance abuse monster as well. You know, like, for example, with that one male I was telling you about. And when he came to me, he was referred to me because of his presenting symptoms, because of his addiction, of his intoxication, you know, of his disconnection from like employment and family based off of that. And really, that is what he’s presenting with, that is primary. Underneath, all of that is this trauma monster that has never really been processed or dealt with.
I believe he was seven when he saw his dad shoot himself. And then before that he saw, you know, violence in like the home and he was subjected to like violence and then later sexual abuse, and all of that stuff had never for him really been acknowledged. And he felt like clinicians, and his family never heard that.
So again, when he came to me, his goal was I want to talk about all this trauma, I want to talk about what it was like to like see that, and I validated him, I acknowledged where he was coming from, I said how insightful he was to have just even the capability to understand that connection of those two. I also had to explain to him the concerns with that, that if I was to meet him, and if we were to start right away with this trauma, it’s almost like we’re shaking up this like Coke bottle. And rather than just slowly beginning to open it so it doesn’t burst all over it. I’m opening it up and it’s everywhere. And then there’s just this mess. There’s this hurt. There’s this goo. It’s this. I almost call it evil that just has gone out and it’s spread, and there’s no way to actually clean it up.
Where if we begin to get to a place of more stability, of cognitive, just acuity, where we know when were intoxicated, we’re very dulled like our senses are dulled, or neurons are like dulled. We’re not thinking in a tangible way. But I share with him if we’re able to kind of get to a more stable safe place, then we can safely begin that trauma work.
Margaret 04:20
Interesting, I think that the visual is good. I also think that when we look at someone who is newly sober, newly getting treatment, clinically, how important it is to as you keep saying meet them where they’re at not trying to dig deeper. Not trying to force going to into some of the history until the person leads you there. Because that unpacking and opening up makes them incredibly vulnerable to go to what their brain tells them works to medicate and erase that feeling.
Heather: Yeah.
Margaret: And until some traction, some connection some people to help them with accountability and support. So, it’s like a family member, say a partner saying, you know what, okay, they’ve been sober 30 days, I want to do marriage counseling now. I am done.
Heather: Yeah.
Margaret: I am resentful. I’m angry. I want them in that room to show how much they’ve hurt me. And it would be important to have a discussion about, let’s look at where we’re both at with our ability to tolerate intolerable feelings. How are we doing with that? Or a person who’s been numb for 10 years. And they’re suddenly like a porcupine where they’re so quick and reacting emotionally? Because they’re new at it again.
Heather: yeah,
Margaret: we’ll look at what we can start with.
Heather Tidwell 05:46
It’s so interesting. So, one of my favorite analogies involves a porcupine. And I usually tell, you know, individuals that when we are newly sober, or when we’re engaging in maybe harm reduction, and were encountering some of these intolerable things or discomforts, where usually we would self-medicate. What I want you to do is I want you to literally convince yourself and I used to have this like, not a real porcupine, but like, you know, one of those, like my kiddo has one of those squishmellos or something. But you know, imagine you’re holding this porcupine. This porcupine is scared, this porcupine quills are on and it kind of hurts to wrap your hands around it. But what I want you to do is before where your reaction would be to us. I want you to sit, sit with that porcupine and respond to it. And maybe just begin to gently touch the porcupine and kind of ask it like what’s going on, buddy? What do you need, you know. Do I need to kind of talk to somebody to I need to maybe just kind of stick here and sit in this space. And notice that my body is very tense and use one of my calming techniques. And eventually when we sit with this porcupine. porcupines are really cute. We’re going to love on him. But again, this is also exposure therapy, the more and more I encounter this discomfort on couple things, situations, stressors, you know environmental stressors that are going to happen in life, I can always pick up that porcupine. The more I pick them up though. Ideally, if we’re looking at this from an exposure lens, the less time it’s going to take to kind of get those quills down. And I’m also going to know what works and what doesn’t work to either piss this guy off, or to make him feel safe to make them feel hurt.
Margaret 07:43
At an early recovery, the thing that survived me was a feeling is just a feeling, it will pass.
Heather: Yeah.
Margaret: Because what kept me overeating was not thinking I could tolerate the feelings I’ve never dealt with.
Heather: Mm hmm.
Margaret: And so the porcupine is very daunting in early recovery. But I also know it is manageable over time with connection, accountability, support and help. Now for the family members, I think they’re equally reactive, but the reactivity for the family member starts when they’re inactive use. And when the person gets into recovery and is sober. The family still is in a high state of porcupine because they haven’t started navigating their own feelings. I believe this is my model, my theory. I believe that on the family side because I’ve been on both sides. On the family side, my person was my drug of no choice. And I’m doing around them exactly. We’re doing around their drug of no choice. And if they start getting well, and don’t do the same things, if I don’t get well, I still do the same thing. So, it’s this whole adjustment, having to learn to tolerate our feelings. I think as a family member I used to get I know I did. I used to get high when I was the fixer, or I was in charge or control seemed to work that day.
Heather: Yep.
Margaret: So, I had to learn how to tolerate what I consider an intolerable which was my powerlessness over the people that I love being okay.
Heather Tidwell 09:18
Oh, yes. And what’s really helpful is being able to have the opportunity to work with somebody that understands family systems and roles. Because then again, it’s we’re not going to wait to the dysregulation happens, we’re going to prepare for it, because dysregulation is going to happen. Resistance is going to happen. We know these things roles. There’s going to be different roles, there’s going to be different roles, you know, even when change is good, we resist against it.
Margaret: Absolutely.
Heather: And it’s this idea of how do we roll with the resistance, you know, versus this. And it’s very powerful for family members to be able to have those tools, and yes, like why it’s, it’s, you know, for looking at like evidenced base and you know, like the ideal way. Yes, working with an individual that is well versed and being able to help like, maybe implement and, you know, one thing I do is a lot of like role modeling, you know, to like, okay, let’s role model, like in the actual session, just to kind of do like, bring up and so we don’t need to have these rainbow sessions. And then we go out. And it’s like, that’s not how families work. Like, let’s talk about what we’re worried about. Let’s talk about a situation that could occur, and how do we all deal with that. But again, this stuff is also out there where families can educate themselves, you know, about motivational interviewing, acceptance, again, is so huge. And just begin even that surface level can be so helpful.
Margaret 10:53
Yes, and it’s an interesting you keep going back to acceptance, because I am with you, 100%. You know, the big book of AA says, acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. If I am disturbed, it’s because I am not able to accept that what’s happening is exactly what’s supposed to today, and a family member rails against that naturally I did when I read it, I was like, Are you kidding me? This isn’t possible. But the reality is, is what’s not acceptable is the way that I’m framing it. Because I’m too scared.
Heather: Yes.
Margaret: Worried, and frustrated, and feeling hopeless, which is a horrible place to be. And so, I’m not going to do feelings, I’m going to go into really, you’re going to tell me, let me show you, I can change it.
Heather Tidwell 11:42
Yeah, acceptance is, for me, it is a life changing skill, to be able to look at things through an acceptance lens, whenever we’re talking really about anything, whether it’s something we like, or something we don’t like. Steven Hayes, you know, again, he founded it, he also calls it psychological flexibility of this idea that, you know, again, like, we can be very black, like catastrophize minimize, but again, the psychological flexibility to be able to look at hard scenarios and situations, you don’t have to like something. Accepting does not mean, I’m saying that this is okay. That’s not what it is. But it’s also being able to kind of be mindful and present with where you’re at, and have an understanding of what are your options? What, what can I do?
12:34
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper 12:39
As we enter the new year, I’m offering something new.
I’m offering a sibling group. In my time and working in the field of addiction, I am struck by families being given less support than they deserve, as a whole. I’m aware that children have now got some resources, parents have resources, partners have resources. And the one relationship that I keep hearing people say I need more is the siblings of someone with the disease of addiction.
So, I am thrilled to be offering exactly that. I will be offering a sibling coaching group. It’s an eight-week series, I’d ask you to enroll for the whole eight weeks, you can come with your own siblings or on your own. And it is a journey into the basics of understanding the impact of the disease, some education, some coaching, and definitely a lot of connecting with other siblings impacted by this disease.
Please find more information in my show notes below. And consider this as a gift to your adult children. If you are a parent who know that there has been impacts on the siblings of the one in your life who has the disease, and or if you are out there as an adult sibling and would like more resources and education. This is a great place to start.
14:12
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never missed a show by hitting the subscribe button. Now back to the show.
Margaret 14:24
I really enjoy talking to you. I find it fascinating. I love hearing your perspective and your little techniques and tools. I feel excited for any clients who would get to have the privilege to work with you. You must offer so much hope and practical, tangible stuff to help them navigate this journey. It’s beautiful.
Heather Tidwell 14:44
I really appreciate that. And I honestly just in this field, you know it’s not a nine to five for me. I consider myself an agent of change. Like I said I love systems and I like thinking about big picture. And you know how can we help change systems, educate systems, educate primary care doctors, you know, and just kind of all really, I very much believe in interdisciplinary care and using formal and informal supports.
Margaret 15:11
Right. Right. And I think that to your point, you know, unfortunately, even in the clinical training, I don’t know your age, I wouldn’t ever even ask that on the air. But in my clinical background, the formal training was, you are a blank slate, you do not share, and you are to fix them. And then the amount of work in a master’s program on addiction, one class.
Heather Tidwell 15:41
I was very blessed, where I got my bachelor’s, master’s, San Diego State University, I was a graduate assistant, worked with a doctor there that were books on motivational interviewing. And this is not me saying anything like bad colleges. But when I did come here, and I started working in the Carolinas, and, you know, I learned a lot of people that had gotten their masters didn’t understand safety assessments. And I was from my schooling kind of shocked. So again, for me, it’s not just saying, Oh, my God, that’s so bad. But it’s saying, Okay, here’s an opportunity. How do we maybe add this in to enhance safety? You know, also so that our clinicians feel comfortable asking about something? And what exactly does that look like? And not being scared of it?
Margaret 16:27
Right? No, very empowering. And I love that you got that in your education. I agree. I don’t call this a bad, or try to shame organizations or careers or trainings. It’s just an awareness. And it’s fascinating think, you know, figuring, AA was written in the 30s, what took us so long as a clinical world, to get it in the DSM. And to start acknowledging, right, it’s a journey, it has evolved, it has changed.
I am so forever grateful that my world imploded, and I ended up at Hazeldene Betty Ford in their training program, 13 months to completely immerse myself and understanding this illness, from a family and a clinical perspective and be able to be trained to understand what I was, I’ll be fully transparent, absolutely in-equipped to deal with, in my private practice before I landed in Hazelden. And I went to a very good college, I just think that maybe I was avoidance. I didn’t want to work with people with the disease of addiction, I was transparent about that. Maybe I didn’t take the courses that were offered. Maybe the school wasn’t as aware of the need for this to be part of a general Master’s counseling degree, as a specialty. So, we’re changing, we’re evolving, and for that, I am grateful.
And I just get excited when I meet people who are as passionate as you are to help the entire family when it comes to the disease of addiction. I think that’s so fabulous. A lot of clinicians avoid working with families and I get it, it’s, it’s a very, back to your word, messy journey. But it’s also the most rewarding work when you watch and see the strength and the resilience.
I am so impressed when a parent reaches out to me says I want to understand what I’ve been living with what my loved ones been living with, I want to find some skills for my toolbox. I’m like, in awe, because I would have probably given just about that from my own family.
Heather: Yeah.
Margaret: To know that, even though it’s not a disease anybody wants, and we stigmatize people who have it, which is shame on us. The reality is, it’s no different than another illness. And when we have other illnesses, maybe we go to a support group for it, maybe we go to education, maybe the doctors tell us stuff about it.
In this disease, families have to almost advocate for themselves to get that. And that’s a lot to ask of a family when they’re already exhausted, terrified, overwhelmed, barely hanging on, managing everything if their person is not doing well, because that’s what they think they have to do. Because they don’t know what else to do. And you say it really well. And it is true. Connection is the opposite of addiction. I would say connection is the opposite of family isolation also, and the imperative nature of this family illness, is that every family member in it, get as much education and support and connection to help them navigate it and the trauma associated
Heather Tidwell 19:42
100% agree
Margaret 19:44
Kinda thought you might
Heather: Yeah. (laughter)
Margaret: Is there anything you haven’t shared Heather that you would want to share before we close out?
Heather Tidwell 19:55
I guess just really, you know, I get like how you said very excited to meet other providers, individuals in the field that are, you know, we can be like an addiction avoidance society, even though there are millions of people that are suffering from it every day. So that’s definitely something is what at least what I’ve been doing with some North and South Carolina providers that I’m so excited about is, I’ve been working with like primary care doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, people and like the hospital system, NAMI, family members who are really just irate about the lack of services that they feel are like out there in general, for mental health and for addiction.
And what we’ve done is rather than just, you know, take that anger, and maybe just like voice it and, you know, vent with each other about it is we’re starting to do these, like networking events. So that way we can meet. I mean, think about it, like, I just connected a primary care provider to one of the directors at an inpatient treatment center, if you could be at your primary care providers, they do a screening, and they’re like, you know, what would be your thoughts of why you’re here, we just call this guy just maybe see, like, what are some options? If it’s something you’re like, interested in, you know, if not, that’s fine. But often, we don’t know how to talk about it. So just to connect all of these players, it’s not like the step to kind of fix everything, but it’s a step in a very much right direction, just to begin the conversation.
Margaret 21:27
Agreed. And I also think, to think that there would be a step to solve everything would just be like taking a pill again. It’s not that easy.
Heather: Yeah.
Margaret: It’s very complex. And there’s a lot of moving parts. And so, the more people out there to use as resources, and ways of approaching it.
Heather: Agreed.
Margaret: So how would someone find you in the Carolinas if they wanted to work with you? How would people locate you? How could they seek your services? What would that look like?
Heather Tidwell 21:58
Well, the name of my practice, it’s B&G Counseling Services, you can find me online.
I have a team of about 12 other clinicians, four of which have some type of specialty with addiction treatment, and or certification, one of which is also a couple’s counselor with that certification as well with addiction treatment, which has been amazing.
And one thing with my practice, too, that I do is, I probably get at least four or five phone calls a week with individuals and with family members, family members of adult family members, of adolescent where they’re basically in tears on the phone with me just speaking to me because they are at a loss. For I keep getting voicemails, nobody’s calling me back. Oh, my goodness, I thought you were going to be a recording. What do I do? What we do at my practices, even if it’s not us, where I’m like, okay, you know, maybe we can’t be a good fit. Within 24 to 48 hours, I will do a warm handoff. Because networking in this community is so important to me. I have a Rolodex, I mean, as thick as the phonebook and connections on my phone, where I can text, call them. And it’s individuals like me, we don’t consider this a nine to five job.
23:19
Margaret: I love that you said that, Heather, because one of the things that I’m so saddened by when clients reach out for me, families reach out to me.
They’ve tried finding people and had no response in return calls, emails, I cannot understand that. I’ve said this for years, family members will settle for crumbs around this disease. And when some gives them more than a crumb, they’re so blown away by it. But the more than a crumb feels, to me completely a minimum. It’s our job. That helps someone to at least give them some information of options to look into. If it is not a good fit with me. I will never, ever leave someone without. Here’s a couple of names. Here’s a couple of phone numbers. Here’s a couple of thoughts. Check out these meetings online. Here’s a link, you know what I mean? Because it’s just so not okay. When somebody picks up that really heavy phone or types in that email. That’s a huge step. And to be met with crickets
Heather: Yeah,
Margaret: Not acceptable.
Heather Tidwell 24:32
When you were saying that, I mean, I hate even saying this word, but it does. It disgusts me. It makes me extremely frustrated as a clinician. It does happen. And that is definitely why, you know, with my practice and all of my clinicians they know when they get that call, if it’s themself or if it’s nobody on our team that can meet their needs, which does happen because we want to make sure that an individual gets paired with ideally you know an individual in that scope of practice, but that’s why it’s so important to us to make all these connections. So we can do a warm handoff.
Margaret 25:09
And the other thing is to be honest with people when they reach out that it may take a couple days to get back to you, but you will be returned a call or an email, there’s not going to be nothing.
Heather: Yes,
Margaret: I think you do better as clinicians, again, not to say people are bad, I do understand that a lot of it is bandwidth, they have so much on their plate, and so many requirements for documentation and insurance coverage and all the other stuff.
Heather: Yeah,
Margaret: If they don’t have the bandwidth to do it. I’d like people to make the effort, because I think it’s just really, really important. It also makes it a lot easier when that finds their connection to trust and dive in. If they haven’t felt like they’d been rejected by five people with no call back before.
Heather Tidwell 25:51
And again, to get back to your idea of like, you have to be alive. One time I had an individual he called me, he had gotten discharged from the emergency room, he was intoxicated. This was his first time calling me he was on top of a parking structure he was thinking about, jumping. And I was able to call like the, you know, with his permission, I called the police, they were able to like get to him, I was able to call like the hospital ensure that he at least was gonna get discharged like a partial hospitalization, and made sure that that all happened. You know, without him even getting released. This person was not my client. This person was a phone call, where they got my Psychology Today information, the first time that they were discharged from the emergency room. That happened right when I moved into this house, it happened about two and a half years ago, I took the call in this room. I think my kids were in like the other room. I knew it was going to be a pretty acute call. I went right outside on that deck. And I spent about 40 minutes making sure that that individual got to the emergency room.
Margaret 26:58
Thank you. Thank you for what you do. And it’s been really wonderful to get to meet you. I look forward to getting to know you even more. We’re in the same state. It’s amazing. Meeting people in my new area.
Heather Tidwell 27:08
I know. Yes. Yes, very much looking forward to it.
Margaret 27:19
I want to take the time to thank Heather Tidwell for her passion, her energy, her enthusiasm and her commitment to working with clients who are impacted by the disease of addiction, and to be present to them and creative with them in coming to a place of giving them resources and help on their journey. It is wonderful to meet fellow professionals who are driven by a passion and an understanding of this family disease of addiction.
Come back next week when I have the privilege of introducing you to Tom Farley a man in recovery, the community relations coordinator for Rosecrance Treatment Center and the big brother to Chris Farley a loved actor and comedian who tragically died of an overdose.
With the launch of the Embrace Family Recovery Sibling Coaching Group on January 18th it feels vital to highlight a sibling story. I am grateful to Tom Farley for being willing to share his.
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story.
Please find resources on my website.
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
