In this episode The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, Bob and Joe, cofounders of East West Recovery Coaches, return to explore the vital role of self-care and family support in the recovery journey. They’ll share the personal practices that keep them grounded and resilient—tools that can benefit anyone navigating life’s challenges. But recovery doesn’t happen in a vacuum, and they dive deep into the importance of family healing after an intervention. Together, they discuss how continued family support not only aids individual recovery but strengthens the entire family unit, creating a foundation for lasting, sustainable healing. Let’s get back to Joe and Bob!
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Bumper 00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of Addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast in this episode Bob and Joe return to dive into the vital role of self-care and family support and recovery. They share personal practices that keep them grounded and resilient and can be useful for any of us.
Beyond individual work they share importance of family healing after an intervention and how continued family support can strengthen the path to recovery for everybody.
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast.
Margaret 01:26
So, Joe, by the way, I did the same thing with my husband, probably about six months into my recovery. He accused me, and I was like, oh, no, he didn’t, I mean, I came around that corner, and I’m not exactly a wallflower anyway, on a good day. And I went nuts, and he looked at me and said, I love you, and I lost you. My addiction is food. I lost you to food, and I don’t want that to happen again. And it was like somebody had scripted him therapeutically or coaching wise, what to say that I
Joe: Beautiful
Margaret: could not react to, and it was like, Holy crap. He loves me and wants me in his life. And he was triggered and scared. I was going back to being on the couch every night, eating myself to oblivion when no one was around, because that was my way of escaping. And he wanted his partner to stay his partner. So, I think what that speaks to in this dynamic of this family disease is really hard to have a loving, healthy, integrity filled, authentic life with someone when there is a buffer between us and everyone in our life. And it is scary as hell to remove that buffer when it’s been a survival mechanism that served us for a while and has become the enemy that takes us down after a while.
When you are working with families around interventions and coaching, because that’s part of it. Is there a lot of education around this being a no-fault disease and how to take care of themself, and is that part of what you do with the whole family when you start the preset and whatever support you offer them through the intervention process?
Joe O’Connor 03:10
Yeah, and more of it comes after Margaret, right? So, so we jump into it. They know what one is. Bob mentioned the letters before. Nine times out of 10, we have them write those emotional appeal letters, just so they don’t stumble over their words, right? They say everything they want to say, and they’re super emotional and great, and then the loved one goes off.
That’s where the work is. So, Bob and I will work with them for as long as they want us to. But you know that that subliminal codependency stuff that’s in there really needs to be identified. You know, the simple stuff is they need to come back into a healthy environment. So, get the booze out of the house. Think about social circles and where you spend your time. If you really want to do this, because your loved ones working on themselves, you have to work on yourselves at the same time.
I didn’t come into Al-Anon until my qualifier there is our youngest son, and so the two before, we didn’t try to be their higher power. We, I think unknowingly, I think we handled those pretty well, but we were, I think, a good example. And as you said, you’re living amends is you know, you’re setting this example for people around you and your kids. But he drove us crazy. I didn’t want to be around him, right? He was just a prolific liar and just, you know, stumbling here and stumbling there.
And his therapist at the time, when he’s in treatment, said, we suggest you and Joan go to Al-Anon. I love Al-Anon today, I just started a men’s meeting about a year ago here in Marin. About seven or eight of us, last Wednesday was about 20. There’s a lot of double winners, as we say, that are both in AA. And I have found that it’s really interesting. We all know that the AA program the world could use the Al-Anon program the world. Could use too. There’s that relationship between AA and Al-Anon before he came in, like, Al Anon is a bad guy. They’re not the bad guy, right? They’re the people that we hurt the most.
And what I found was in Al-Anon that, in general, I still do, but I was trying to manipulate the world in order for me to be comfortable. It’s just not going to happen that way, right? I don’t need to manipulate anything, and, matter of fact, I have no control over it.
So. it’s really helped me get kind of a new baseline, a new foundation for how I live my life. And so, you know, with families, we work with them as much as they want us to, but we certainly right afterwards, because they’re like and they get that 30/60, day reprieve where the house gets back to normal. That’s where Bob and I will have some conversations with them and just answer their questions, and lead them down certain paths that get them on their own path.
Margaret 05:57
Right. So, I’m curious before we jump to Bob, Joe, when you look at your youngest being such a struggle for you to be around, his, disease manifested in an ugly way that you found difficult to be navigating. So that’s my language. Like separating the disease from the person, set the boundaries against the disease. Love the person. Do you know what it was about his that was so much more challenging for you than the others?
Joe O’Connor 06:23
It’s probably worth bringing up more of a story on him. So, our number five is adopted. My sister died of an overdose.
Oh, I’m so sorry.
Her husband, exactly a week later, killed himself. So, this boy was three years old, almost four, three years old. So, there are now six of us, and I had instructions from my wife when we had a meeting on Christmas Eve. Happened to be Christmas Eve where he was going to stay in our family, not my brother in law’s family. We had decided that, and my wife said to me, you’re to come home with this boy. It’s exactly what she said. And we knew it was the best house to be in, because it was a sober house. So that dynamic, as he’s gotten older, and he’s gotten appreciably better through his own therapy and through treatment.
There was a dynamic there of him not feeling part of our family, and kind of telling us so and so different than our biological though, I never think of him as anything other than our fifth child, and our son. That was the point that the part of that story that was difficult to kind of be around, because he was leveraging that in really ugly ways, and we weren’t necessarily doing the best job as parents to feel rejected.
Margaret: Right?
Joe O’Connor: And were we not loving him enough? And you know, today, I talked to him every single morning just to say hello, like I do all of my kids. But that’s why I think there’s a dynamic there that’s important to point out,
Margaret 07:58
First of all how terribly sorry I am for that loss, for you and for him tenfold as a little one, losing both your parents in such a way and then to be accepted, and welcomed, and brought into your loving home is beautiful. And everything you went through, I’m sure, was to give him every opportunity you gave your other children. We don’t know what’s trauma has imprinted on anyone at any age, do we, and how it will manifest in different ways?
Joe O’Connor 08:27
Exactly?
Margaret 08:28
Wow. What a gift that he had you all, no matter the struggles, right?
Joe O’Connor 08:34
Well he’s our gift, right? He’s made us better people and better parents.
Margaret 08:38
Well, isn’t that the story of recovery? Yeah, as much as we don’t want it, none of us the gift in it is we become human beings that we always dreamed we could be, never thought we could, right? Wow.
So, Bob, you mentioned a dynamic that I think really hits with many of my families, and that is the family that is buttoned up and looks really good on the outside, and I think you called it a dumpster fire on the inside.
Bob Muncil: Yeah.
Margaret: That’s a great term. So that’s a really challenging family dynamic to change, because to the outside world, woo hoo. Everybody’s great, looking good, succeeding, achieving. What’s the problem?
Bob Muncil 09:23
Yeah,
Margaret 09:24
So, what do you say to those families out there, who that is their reality right now, that they’ve not even an idea where to go, but they feel like, do I even try because they’re going to work still, or do I even try because they’re successful? Do I even try? But at home, it’s walking on eggshells, not knowing what the next thing’s gonna be, and it’s miserable, and scary, and upsetting. And I want something different, but I don’t even know where to begin.
Bob Muncil 09:52
Right? And so often there is, let’s say, for some of the interventions I’ve done. The dad sees it one way, and the mom sees it the other. Or a sibling, one sibling sees it like, you know, don’t upset the apple cart and so that that creates an even more challenging situation.
One of the things that Joe and I do, I think, really well, is we know where the end of our expertise lies. So often with a family, we’ll call someone like you Margaret because we’ll say, okay, we’re holding we’re setting up base camp for this family. They now trust us. They understand that their loved one is going into treatment or not, but hopefully going into treatment. They recognize that \this system that they’ve been all part of has flaws. When they go into denial, like, nope, it’s just them, they’ll go away to treatment, and I can’t talk them into changing that dynamic in the system. That’s that, you know, I try so hard to explain to people, someone going away and then coming back to an environment that’s the same. It’s going to recreate, you know, the things that you don’t like.
But where people say, okay, we’re going to start looking at making changes. I mean, Joe and I have been doing this. We’ve been in this like you, for so long we think, okay, everybody’s gone to therapy, everyone knows what codependency is. Everyone sees the flaws of, you know, loving someone and just keep handing them something that perpetuates their illness. So, what we try and do is, I call it base camp. I try and get a family to set up base camp to say, okay, are you willing to create a dynamic where you’re all doing some kind of group work together? Individually, super important, but together. Let’s say we get a yes, then it’s almost like we have to hand that off to the experts, so people like you, Margaret, and the people who really understand how to take the base camp of, okay, we recognize there’s a problem, our person is away for a certain amount of time or not away, and then how do we go about doing that?
So, it’s so important to me, Joe and I recovery coaching, interventions. We’re like, you’re, you know, just parachute us in in the middle of that, and we are, we’re the guys
Margaret: Right
Bob Muncil: After that. We need people like you to do the heavy lifting as far as the family dynamic stuff.
Margaret 12:33
Well, what I hear is, you know your lane, you know your boundaries, in the in the services you offer. And that’s really fantastic, because there are people who will go outside of their lane and dabble in stuff that, in my opinion, can get dangerous, and so it’s important to have the resources, just like I wouldn’t jump in and do an intervention right now, though many people have said that’s something that I should do in my career. At this point, that hasn’t been my wheelhouse. I love and then passionate about enhancing, and offering more resources for the families, because I do think even though we as a society call it a family disease, and in the industry of treatments and professional healing, we call it a family disease, but we often neglect the family very badly in offering them crumbs, when they need a full plate of help.
Bumper 13:25
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
I am Margaret swift Thompson and I am so grateful you’re listening to this podcast, it means more to me than you know.
As a result of the growth and continuation of my mission to help more family members find resources and enhance their toolbox with things that can help them navigate this journey of recovery I want to let you know that I’m coming back with the family coaching. So I’m starting the Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group again and I want to make sure people know that this is a group and it’s a coaching group. It’s open to anyone impacted by the disease of addiction from a family’s perspective. So it could be your parent, your partner, your child, a sibling, anybody. If you would like to be a part of this educational and supportive community please go to my website embracefamilyrecovery.com and look into the coaching group we’re going to have it for all people impacted so we’re not going to divide the group into parents or partners or suppliers we’re going to just have an Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group so if you want to know more please head to my website and find out more learn more and if you have any questions at all please reach out to me by email at margaret@nullembracefamilyrecovery.com
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never miss a show by hitting the subscribe button now back to the show.
Margaret 14:44
So, when you look at your own story and your clients you’ve served in this world, what would you say is the most meaningful thing that a person who loves someone with this illness can do? Do the most valuable and supportive thing, rather than go to the negatives that we shouldn’t do, because there’s a lot of that. Let’s talk about the gifts and the positives. If you were to say, as people in recovery, people who do interventions and people who do coaching for people in recovery, what would be those glimmers that you would offer family?
Bob Muncil 15:21
I love saying to people, Margaret um, asking them what kind of work they’ve done on themselves.
Margaret: Yeah, because to me, it’s like such a First things first, how you know the whole metaphor of put the oxygen mask on ourselves first, when it’s so true in this world, because, if nothing else. People don’t have the language, they don’t have the understanding, they don’t have compassion. I always talk about fuel, because the fuel is fear, and then when we can identify with them, if you’re fueled by fear, you’re going to keep going down the wrong road. Whether whatever the opposite of fear is, whether you call it love or faith or awareness. That’s the fuel that we want people working with. And that’s why I always tell people, you know, and I even say to people, can I get in your lane for a minute? And this is especially when you have a, let’s say a husband and wife and one of them, one of them is just saying, no, it’s, you know, not mine. And I’ll ask them, Can I just get in your lane for a minute, it’s funny. Sometimes people are like, no, you can’t, you know, so I’m certainly not a couples counselor, yay.
Margaret 16:31
But I love that you ask, and you are not assumptive. You ask to be invited in. What a respectful, boundary filled way to approach it.
Joe O’Connor 16:41
I think that’s important.
Bob Muncil 16:42
Yeah, it goes right to that whole credibility thing. I mean, these people don’t know me, you know, here I am jumping into this incredibly intense, emotion filled baggage for years situation, and just helping them. They see this problem, and I see this problem and trying to sensitize them to the fact of this, the system.
Margaret: Yeah,
Joe O’Connor 17:08
You know. And in the event that an intervention doesn’t work on that day, or it doesn’t work at all, we haven’t done hundreds and hundreds of them, but we’ve done a lot of them, and they have to date, all been successful. Now we don’t know what that’s going to mean when they go to treatment. I’ve had someone leave after three days, and someone leave after 20 days. But I think if it, if it doesn’t work, we’ll say and then the family is given direction on how to take care of themselves, not only are they going to feel better and be able to cope with that addict or alcoholic, but they’re also then going to be a shine example of life.
You know, the old, detached with love. So, I think you have to remain loving to them, yes, and usually that’s been lost. I mean, they love them, but they just don’t show it, because they’re frustrated and they just they’ve been burned and scorned and everything else. But if they’re working on themselves, and truly can do that, and that’s really hard, hard work, then that person is going to want that person who’s showing that side of them, which is someone who kind of likes their life, is being decent to them while kind of ignoring them if they’re skilling their disease.
Margaret 18:26
So, I would say ignoring their disease but liking and loving them.
Joe O’Connor 18:30
Exactly. And then that person who then is even more aware of what they’re going to lose if they continue that behavior might then on their own, after kind of getting that initial jolt to want to change and go get help.
Margaret 18:45
You said earlier, I didn’t play my children’s higher power. I knew that somehow, before even joining Al-Anon, we feel deeply. We care deeply for the people we work with. I I’m sure you do. I can say we, I think pretty hope sincerely, because from what I’ve seen of you and heard of you. How do you take care of yourselves? Because this is not easy work, and we lose people to this disease, whether it be in our circles, of our recovery rooms, whether it be in our work we do with clients. So, what do you do to take care of yourselves on a day-to-day basis. Because whatever we do as clinicians, coaches, professionals in the field, really role models to the people we serve, how to do it for themselves.
Joe O’Connor 19:32
Bob, you take that one.
Bob Muncil 19:34
So, I have a very robust self-care program. You know, I’m not bragging. I just, I’m going to say it. I meditate every day. I do yoga every day I, you know, caffeine and sugar, yeah, like, I’m an addict. I want all the caffeine and sugar there is. I limit. greatly limit my caffeine and sugar. I exercise. I’ve done ongoing counseling, especially when I get stuck with something. And I now know, because I’m so aware when I’m stuck with something and I need a professional, I’ll go back. I have a counselor that I can go to get a tune up, get unclogged with whatever it is that is clogging me. And I used to look at it like, oh God, I got this work to do. I look at it now like, okay, what else is out there? Because I get to live more freely and cleanly and all that, the more work I do. No one likes a challenge, but I know for me, I call it base camp. I have to take care of my body with exercise. I have to take care of my on fire ADD brain through meditation. And so, it’s so part of my day now that I can’t imagine not doing it.
Margaret 20:51
So, on that vein, I really think it’s a great term. When I’m stuck or I need to get unclogged, I see a counselor. I keep them as my tune up, if you like. It’s kind of like taking the car to the mechanic shop. What might be something, if you’re willing to share that would be a stuck thing that you wouldn’t have got, maybe the ability to work through in your recovery program or with the tools you have if you’re willing to share that. Because I think, again, that’s very insightful for families to understand. The journey is ongoing for all of us.
Bob Muncil 21:18
Ongoing. Here’s an example, my kids, as I mentioned, are 35, 33, 29 you know, they’re adults. They’re out in the world, doing things. And as a parent, you know, we’re never done being parents. And when I see a real heavy challenge with one of my kids, I’m acting out of fear, and I’m a big one in that. Okay, I know what my fuel is. I want to make it look like love and faith, but it’s based in fear. When that’s based in fear, I have I have to get my head around that. I have to do my own work on it, whether it’s cognitive behavioral therapy, whatever it is, to look at every angle of not that situation. But what’s going on here? I’m predisposed to fear because of my upbringing, because of whatever it might be when I see it clearly, it’s not necessarily that the pain goes away, but I get clarity, and then I can act truly out of love instead of out of fear.
Margaret 22:18
Awesome example. Thank you. And gosh, who doesn’t hear in this circle of three of us identify and understand that process adult children, I had this delusion that they’d go off to college and I’d be like, yeah.
Bob Muncil 22:28
We’re good!
Margaret 22:31
Wow! Talk about the universe offering me a few humbling experiences of letting go. You know, I remember when I gave birth to my first born, somebody gave me a card and said, Welcome to the world of when your heart has left your body and is walking around the planet, yeah, and in in that adulthood, that is exactly how it felt. I’m curious you know around this too, from we’ll get to your glimmers, Joe, but I want to know around this whole thing about, there’s a lot of talk right now, and I’m sure you hear it too, against 12 step. Harm reduction. I met someone recently who said they are unapologetically 12 step. They don’t put down any other program, but they live and breathe and speak and work their truth. Curious how you’re navigating all of the pushback and the media and the professional challenges around all the different paths to recovery, and unfortunately the negativity against 12 step at times.
Bob Muncil: Yeah, go ahead, Joe. You go first.
Joe O’Connor 23:32
You know, Bob and I are both trained in Dharma and refuge. We bring that in and smart as well. We grew up in the 12 steps, as Bob said, right? And I think it’s a willingness of the individual. I think when you hear some of that pushback, I have a potential client, I’ll just throw this out here, who I’ve not met with on the recovery coaching side, and he immediately told me he thinks 12 step Dharma refuge is all and it’s not factual, yeah, so we had that conversation, right? It probably shouldn’t be in here, but anyways, so I think it’s the willingness of the person, and if you’re fighting back too much on it, I don’t hear a lot. I mean, there are a lot of 12 step meetings in Marin County. There are 300 I know there’s 367 a day, and that is within 40/30, miles of me. So, there are over 300 meetings. But I also go to a wonderful Dharma meditation meeting, which is tonight. I go to Refuge meeting occasionally, and so I don’t necessarily hear a lot of pushback from people on it, but when I do, it’s usually because they’ve come in and hadn’t been willing to change. It didn’t work. For them it didn’t work. And so, they have this this notion that, you know, it’s not for me, and I think if you, if you put the substance down, and you start to feel again, and you start to discover a bit more about yourself, whatever that is. And I didn’t come into Buddhism for a long time, but I love that relationship with Buddhism and recovery. I think it’s just fantastic. And Buddhism and I sometimes bring clients who have been to treatment more than once, who really don’t have an argument with the 12 steps, but I’m not their sponsor. They should go through them again. Have their own path, and do that is jump right into Dharma refuge, kind of recovery, because it’s awful hard to argue with. When you think about the four noble truths in the Eightfold Path, there’s not much you can point fingers at right. And so, you know, and I think things like meditation and bringing in kind of a holistic Bob, and I will do that with people again, depending where they are on their journey, first time, third time, wherever it is. And if they’re arguing about certain aspects of it is to bring in something new, and then that enlightens them. We find to maybe go back to the core that they thought didn’t work and do it all over again or go in another direction.
Margaret 26:06
So, I hear that you’re open to working with people, where they’re at meeting them, where they’re at offering them and the resources as well as your learned experience.
Bob Muncil 26:16
Yeah. And from my perspective, Margaret, I try and explain. I say to people who are, who have that, I say, you know, think of it like there’s a room. We all want to get to the room. The room is the place where we’re happy and we are dependable and we’re clean and free. And there’s a lot of hallways that go to that room. The hallway I went down was the 12 steps. It worked really well for me. Other people go down other hallways that are harm reduction or Buddhism or SMART or, you know, whatever it might be. But the core piece I try and get from someone who says, oh no, no, I’m I don’t want to go to the trench coat guys and church meetings, whatever. I say, what’s your vision? This is something that we’re big into. I’ll say, what’s your vision, and if their vision isn’t abstinence, okay, I just want to get the monkeys off my back. That’s important for me to know, because they’re just looking for an AA terms of softer, easier way or whatever. So, once I understand what their vision is, then I can more easily suggest to them the route they go, but I tell, just kind of like it says in the big book, do some experiments, see how that works for you. You know, if someone’s really an addict or an alcoholic and they can pick up a drink and put one down and not have another one for a week. I’m like, wow, okay, maybe.
Margaret 27:42
yeah, it’s like we used to say, if someone was struggling to surrender, and then a lot of people struggle with this. But is, do some more research, you’ll get the answer. And I say it to the families in a different way, because I think families, you know, the families that I’ll be describing, those who are seeking the bottles, jumping through hoops to try and find the evidence, trying to find the proof, trying to push it out there. I will slow them down and say, you know, didn’t you know? Don’t you know. Can’t you tell? Don’t you get evidence when relapse has happened or when use is happening Tell me what you’ve seen, because our histories often give us everything, we need to know about what we’re doing that works and what we’re doing that doesn’t work. But because we’re so emotionally dysregulated, so stressed, so overwhelmed, it’s hard to sit and get into that space. But my families will always tell me, yeah, you know, I do know when they’re using but I just don’t want to be made a fool of. So it’s reframing it that nobody wants to make a fool of anyone. The disease doesn’t give a crap about any of us. And the reality is it’s not personal, though it feels deeply personal.
Bob Muncil 28:50
All I will say is, Margaret, I think even the name of your podcast, everyone should come in the door of family, and I applaud you so much with your work and your podcast because honestly, you can’t find someone that Joe and I work with where the family issue isn’t front and center and we have to go about explaining it. o, the work that you do, your podcast and everything like that. I just applaud you so much. I’m happy to be on your podcast, and I’m, I’m waving your flag.
Margaret 29:26
Thank you. And I you. I think the fact that you do have this beautiful relationship, that you created this incredible support network and program, base camp for your clients, that’s going to be fantastic. And I can’t wait for people to learn more about you through the podcast. So, Joe, what’s your glimmer? What are those things that you’d like to leave that are helpful for families and people impacted by this disease?
Joe O’Connor 29:49
You know, be patient, right? Be patient. Both with yourself and the individual that is struggling. It takes time. There are no quick. Sixes celebrate the milestones. Really celebrate them, right?
I mean, I think that for the addict and alcoholic birthdays or anniversaries, they call them birthdays out here. I grew up with anniversaries on the east coast, but birthdays and anniversaries are really important to celebrate. But as I often say, when I’m accepting a coin, is thank you. I really appreciate the acknowledgement in shares. I will say, my God does not care how much time I have, and all that means is I don’t celebrate the 25 years, the 30 years, whatever it is. I have to re up every day. I cannot trade on yesterday’s sobriety.
And what I love, because if we do call this a job, if, if we do a job for 25 years, we would say we know everything about the job. What I love is I discover new things every day.
Margaret: Right
Joe O’Connor: through reading. And you know, my meditation, which is every single day and breath work, along with meditation, eating healthy and exercise, one of the things, and you’ll see it on our website. Bob is a nutty fly fisherman, right? He’s a fish in another life. We have a big trip going to Wyoming with our kids in May, which we’re really looking forward to. And I, when we came out to San Francisco, started open water swimming. So, I swim from Alcatraz at least once, if not twice, a year, and two days a week in 50-degree water, I’m out, and it is incredible for me. I don’t know whether it’s your endorphins, your serotonin, or the same, whatever it is,
Margaret: the happy hormones
Joe O’Connor: when I get out, oh, when I get out of there, right? I am so blessed to be able to do it. And one of the things is I, is I and others get challenged, especially people in early recovery, is I start to have them think that, you know, we don’t have to do this, but we get to do this.
And that’s a good mantra for me every day when I get challenged with kids and emotional stuff and familial stuff and all of that. Well, someone said to me a long time ago that if home is an attractive place to come to when your kids no longer live at home, you’ve done a pretty good job as a parent.
And so, as I said before four of them are out here and one is on the east coast, I say good morning by text to all five of them every single morning. And then someone just taught me a wonderful, wonderful thing, which I started a few years ago. Is on Father’s Day, I write them all a letter telling them what it means to be their father.
Margaret: Beautiful.
Joe O’Connor: I wasn’t in recovery and didn’t have all of this, none of that would be I might jump in and do something that looks good, and none of that would be happening.
Margaret 32:48
I hear the skeptic listening, saying that’s a lot. He does a lot to stay well, I know the truth. To stay in the disease takes a hell of a lot more work and energy than it does to stay well in recovery. I’m curious if that is your experience as well.
Joe O’Connor 33:10
It is. I think it’s a lot easier to stay sober than get sober. And I absolutely believe in, you know, the struggle to come in, I was blessed. It’s one of my gifts. And I say this out loud at meetings, that the compulsion of drinking drug was pretty much lifted from me. That’s my gift. I never looked down upon anybody who relapses. Sometimes it’s very necessary, right? But that’s my gift. I may struggle in another aspect of my life that someone doesn’t, but the work that you do to stay in. I think you just have to kind of back to Bob’s point, and we use that term base camp all the time. Come back to your base camp every day. And anything that’s kind of, you know, future tripping and is out there, just come back to keep your head where your feet are, just for that moment, right? And fundamentally, is all is well when you just kind of look at where you are at that moment. So, for someone who’s kind of overwhelmed and think that’s kind of a lot of work, I got there over a period of time, and other things that I complicated have kind of been simplified and pushed over. And I brought new things into my program and my life and my rituals, everybody will kind of form their own kind of universe, depending on what kind of makes them tick.
Margaret 34:27
I have to say, I think that to be a client of yours in an intervention and their families, they’re truly blessed, because what you offer is quite beautiful to see you both together on this podcast, because I had a chance to talk to Bob separately. You have just a deep friendship and respect and a sense of peace and high sense of integrity that you work a program and that helps keep you in good stead when you work with such complicated, and challenging cases as interventions can offer.
So, I’m really glad to have met you both and to hear what you’re doing and to know that you’re a resource out there for family members who may be needing to do an intervention or wanting to do an intervention or seeking guidance on whether or not to do an intervention. So, Joe, if there was someone out there listening, who’s really on that fence or questioning or wondering, how do they get hold of you? What’s the best way to reach you?
Joe O’Connor 35:27
You can try me anytime. The best way I would direct into our website, which is East West RC for recovery coach. eastwestrc.com and our phone numbers are on there. You can fill out an info form. Don’t do that. Call Bob or I anytime, and we’ll have a conversation.
Margaret: Wonderful.
Outro: I want to thank Joe and Bob for being my guests and for their willingness to share their stories of recovery, and the incredible ways their recovery has guided them in retiring from corporate world to founding their intervention and recovery coaching business, East West Recovery Coaches.
Come back next week when I have the privilege of introducing you to Mallory. Mallory shares her journey as a sibling of a person with a substance use disorder in her family. Mallory’s story highlights the often overlooked struggles of siblings in the families affected by the family disease of addiction, and the healing power of developing one’s own personal recovery.
Margaret 37:36
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability in sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website,
This is Margaret Swift Thompson, until next time, please take care of you.
