Today Al Richards, the host of The Other Side of Addiction Podcast, concludes his story and shares how impactful surrender has been concerning his and his wife’s recovery and improved their marriage.
People who love someone with the disease of addiction struggle to let go, set boundaries, and resist getting off the hamster wheel of “fix, manage, and control.” In this episode of the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, Al and I discuss how incapable we are of driving someone else’s recovery.
You can watch Al’s Podcast on You Tube – The Other Side of Addiction.
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See full transcript below.
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00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back! Today is the conclusion of my conversation with Al Richards, the host of the podcast entitled ‘The Other Side of Addiction.’ Al shares with us the most helpful tool he has in separating his wife from her disease as well as how he finds his kind of support. The traditional 12 step program is often looked at as the only resource available for recovery. Al’s story demonstrates that recovery is an individual process and that there are many ways to find it.
Let’s get back to Al.
01:43
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Al 02:17
We would drink on weekends. You know, we were just like social drinkers. We would have friends come over, family would play cards, play games, I had my garage set up like a man cave, we had the dartboard, the refrigerator full of booze, stereo TV. And none of us would ever get really plastered. However, there at the end, I was starting to get that way. I was starting to get to where I was getting myself pretty high, and pretty drunk at the same time.
Margaret 02:46
But the coke was unknown to everybody.
Al 02:47
The coke was unknown. Yeah.
Margaret 02:50
Even to your wife,
Al 02:51
Even to the wife, you know, we come up with all kinds of different ways, right as addicts. When my wife was hiding her bottles, some of the places where I found bottles, I’m like, what the hell? I mean, where did you come up with this idea? I would have never thought of hiding a bottle here. So we get very creative, and I was very creative. I’d come up with all kinds of different ways. So they had no clue.
Margaret 03:14
How does it feel today to be able to look in the eyes of the people you love and know that you’re not hiding, manipulating, or sneaking?
Al 03:21
Oh man, it’s great. Because all I did before during that time was like, man, you think they know? Oh, they’re looking at me? Do I got white on my nose? You know, you’d hurry and go somewhere, or pull up your phone when no one was looking on a selfie to see if you had… none of that happens anymore. You know, it’s just like life is life.
Margaret 03:44
You mentioned Al that you grew up in a, would you class it as abusive? Your dad’s behavior?
Al 03:50
I wouldn’t say really abusive, just extremely strict. And I know why, now. I found out probably about seven years ago that this guy I called my dad all my life wasn’t my real dad. My mom was but he adopted me at age two, when he married my mom and I had no idea, my family kept it from me. And of course, I had a brother, and a sister were all seven years apart. So I was seven when my brother was born. I was 14 when my sister was born. And again, I couldn’t do anything, right. Everything I did, according to my dad’s eyes, I was wrong. And even all the way up here into my, I’m almost 60 And he just passed away last February and we got into it years ago. I didn’t even see him or hear from him for about five and a half years. First time I saw him after that time was in Yuma, where they go for the winter. He’s on his deathbed. He was dying. And yeah, so it was tough. And even into my 50s he basically told me; I was a worthless piece of shit. I didn’t have a house. I didn’t have a job. I didn’t have this I didn’t have that, but it was all material things. But you know, that’s the way they were brought up, right? You had to have things to be successful.
Margaret 05:09
What do you class as successful for you in your life?
Al 05:13
That’s a really good question. Just being an incredible, awesome person. Someone that shares a lot of love, understanding.
I’ve worked really hard on not judging really, really hard on that. Having a lot of integrity. I mean, I am very well-known now, if someone can come to me and tell me something, if they asked me not to share it, it’s not shared. It stays with me, it’s buried deep inside, and if I can share something really quick with you.
Margaret: Sure.
Al: I’ve done a lot of networking in my life. And I had a gentleman I haven’t seen for a while and he calls me up, his name is Oz. And he goes Al, gosh, we haven’t seen each other for a couple of years, I’d like to meet with you and catch up. And I’m like, alright, so we meet at a Top Golf, just here in this valley. And we sit down, we’re talking. And he goes, let me ask you a question. He goes in, you don’t have to share if you don’t want to, but he goes, are you wealthy? And I remember leaning back in my chair, laughing, I says, man, if I showed you my bank account, you’d see I’m not very wealthy at all. And I’m kind of laughing about it. And he leans over and he puts his hands on top of my hands. He goes, Al, let me tell you something. He goes, you and I do a lot of networking. Anytime I go to a networking group, and I’m not lying, he goes, your name comes up. I’m like, are you serious, and he goes on dead serious. I’ve never heard anyone speak an ill word about you. Not one. He goes, that my brother is true wealth. And I got tears in my eyes just like I do right now. Because at one time, when I lost my job, people told me they couldn’t trust me.
So, to me, I’m successful. I’m not where I want to be yet. And even once I get there, I’ll probably be somewhere that I’m not yet because I am a true believer, there is no finish line.
You may set goals, you may work your way up that mountain, but until I’m in the ground, there is no finish line. I will continue to work on being someone better, someone different, someone that people can count on. And I believe I’ve made a pretty good step towards that.
So, my mom used to say whenever I introduced her to people, and people would say, oh my gosh, your son is so amazing. He’s incredible. We just love him. And she would always say, I wish his dad looked at him that way. And it’s a shame my dad never did. He didn’t want to see it. And I spent all my life doing my best to making proud of me, finally realizing didn’t matter what I did, you know, I could go get a job, it’d be making a million dollars a year and he’d still find something wrong. But for me, it’s how I feel, it doesn’t matter how anybody else looks at it.
Margaret 08:17
Absolutely. And with having come to the place of identifying a part of who you are, that was destroying you, and that integrity and that sense of value in yourself. And to be able to not be living constantly wanting to escape or waiting for, or balancing the needle. Allows you the space to be the amazing human being you are rather than someone who’s desperately chasing something to make you feel good enough.
Al 08:47
Yeah, it’s crazy. I’ve interviewed quite a few people that said, giving back to the community and helping someone else is my new drug. And there, right? I mean, it really is.
Margaret 08:58
How has your relationship changed with the two of you being in recovery or being at least abstinent from use?
Al 09:06
We’re much closer, of course, because we’re not withdrawing from one another or life, basically.
Margaret 09:13
Well, you also don’t have two things between you or three.
Al 09:16
Right? Yeah, there’s another one. Yeah. There’s still a lot of growing for both of us. My wife is doing everything she can to find her true purpose. She’s now been certified as a peer support specialist. She just got a job where she’s now helping those in recovery, which is very, very rewarding for her.
And I’m continuing to go through my journey. And we still butt heads a little bit because it’s almost like we haven’t found that common ground yet, but we’re still searching for it and we haven’t given up on one another, which is huge. I filed divorce three times during her addiction and canceled it three times. Something kept me here. And I’m glad it did. I look at it as God.
Margaret 10:05
Do you think that was a way to try and get her attention?
Al 10:09
It was at the start? Absolutely. Yeah. And she even brought it to my attention. Many times, she’s like, quit threatening divorce, because you’re not going to do it. You threatened it, how many times, she knew it. But I’d always get drawn back in because she’d get out and she’d start getting sober. And I’d start seeing that woman I fell in love with again, and it’s like, oh, my gosh, she’s back. And then everything would run downhill again.
Margaret 10:36
You know, most of the people that listen to the podcast are people who are family members, people who love someone with the disease of addiction, and you obviously are on both sides of the coin and finding your way.
What has been helpful to you in separating your wife from her disease and finding the ability to surrender being her therapist. To make those big changes in you, what helped you when it came to her because you tried everything most family members try.
Al 11:05
I gave up. And I don’t want to say that in a negative way. Because it’s not in a negative way. I like to refer back to the song that Carrie Underwood sings, Jesus Take the Wheel.
I spent umpteen years, being her therapist, trying to control everything, failing at it miserably. Year after year, after year. I finally, finally hit my knees and said, God, I’m not doing this, I’m not able to do it.
And again, I’m not preaching religion here, because I feel like I’m more spiritual than I am religious. I just finally gave up. I’m like, you need to direct me where I need to go because I’m steering the car in the wrong direction. And I keep crashing into the wall. And that’s what did it for me.
In all honesty. I mean, really, once I gave it up, and I just started going, whatever is going to happen is going to happen. And I’ve got to be okay with it. No matter how bad it hurts. I’ve got to be okay with it.
And I got challenged many, many times.
And it was finding the things that helped me get my mind off of it, like the hiking, and working out and different things like that. Yeah, that’s what started changing things. And then she started realizing too, about four weeks into the beginning of her recovery to where she’s at today. She come up to me one day and she goes, babe, you’ve changed. I’m like, no, I haven’t. She said, no there’s something different about you. And she goes, it’s almost like you’re getting on with your life without me. And she was right, in a way, because I wasn’t letting it control me anymore. And I told her, I says babe look, I get emotional. I want you in my life, however, if you want to continue to go a different direction, I can’t go there with you anymore. I’m just, I’m done. I’m tired of putting coins in. However, if you want to get on this train with me, and you want to go down a different track. I’m here, let’s do it. And she jumped on the track with me.
And we started using a lot of I statements, we still fall back into the old patterns, of course, we’ve done it for years. So, we’re doing our best to climb our way out of it.
And now instead of when things happen instead of me throwing daggers at her like I used to. I use a lot of I statements now. Hey, this is how I feel when this happens. And I don’t know what we can do to change this. And so she’s not feeling attacked. I would attack her before.
And I also started realizing too, it’s not her that has the problem, it’s me. I’m the one that’s getting irritated. She’s not doing anything wrong. It’s me that’s getting irritated with what she’s doing to where I would go back and start throwing the daggers at her again. So it’s really helped.
14:29
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper: I’m excited to announce that I will be once again presenting at the National Rural Institute on Alcohol Drugs and Addictions from June 25th to June 29th, 2023, at the UW Stout campus.
I think any of you who’ve been listening to my podcast for a while know how passionate I am about getting the message out for the intense need for more support, education, and resources for the families impacted by the disease of addiction.
So I’m thrilled once again to be going there, and sharing and teaching around engagement with families whose loved one has the disease of addiction the lineup of speakers is incredible any coach, counselor, educator who want further education in a variety of subjects please check out the link this bumper in my show notes, and you’ll have a full access to this wonderful retreat that I thoroughly enjoyed last year and look forward to being a part of again in June of this year!
15:00
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never miss a show by hitting the subscribe button. Now back to the show.
Margaret 16:04
Did you ever try a Family Support Program? Like Al-Anon or Codependents Anonymous or anything like that? Did you ever try that for yourself?
Al 16:13
Yeah, I went to Al-Anon, for about three weeks, there was a certain AA meeting that my wife liked to go to. And in the basement of this old, old church, there was an AA meeting. And upstairs was an Al-Anon meeting.
And I went to my third meeting. And when I met her back out of the car, I said, I will never show my face here again. And she’s like, why, and I’m like, I am more ticked off now than I was before I went in.
And I’m not knocking Al-Anon, because I have a family member who’s gone. And it’s been so, so flippin good for them. Al-Anon has helped so many people. It just wasn’t a fit for me.
I went to a family support group when she went to a place here in Salt Lake called ‘Phoenix Recovery.’ And by started going to family support group there, I was the only one out of probably about a dozen people who had a spouse, everyone else had a child that was battling addiction. I went to that one for quite a while. And then, to me, it just wasn’t a fit.
You know, so a lot of my support in helping my wife and everything really started happening when I started talking, and started doing public speaking. And I started the podcast. That’s really when my support started kicking in. And I was getting different types of support, if that makes sense. They were supporting me without them even realizing they were doing it. And it was by telling their stories and sharing what they put their families through. and having people on the show who had been on the other side, and then sharing what they did, and what they did to help, and what they did wrong. And that was my support group that really started changing things for me.
Margaret 18:12
What made you start the podcast, and the speaking. Like, where did that come from, for you, to decide that was a avenue you wanted to pursue?
Al 18:23
You know, the speaking Margaret came from a friend that I was having coffee with one day. And that’s when I first started opening up, first started sharing. And he’s like, Al, you need to start talking about this. I’m like, who wants to listen? And he goes, who wouldn’t because there are other people going through what you’re going through.
You know when we’re going through problems, Margaret, we think we’re the only one that’s going through it. There’s 100s and 1000s of other people going through it just like us, some not as bad, some worse. And when I started talking about it, I started realizing how well it was making me feel. Then COVID hit, all these public gatherings come to a stop.
Margaret: Right.
Al: And when you start listening to the higher power, whatever your higher power is, God, the universe or rock, a mountain, whatever it may be. Something kept telling me podcast, podcast, podcasts. I’ve never even listened to a podcast. I’ve heard of them. But I’ve never even listened to one. And I just happened to run into someone that knew a guy that owned a radio station, and he did podcast and I just happened to reach out to this guy and said, hey, I’ve got this idea. What do you think about it? And he goes, I love it. And he’s like, why do you want to do it? And I’m like, because I don’t want other people to make the same mistakes that I’ve made, and I says and they’re doing it.
And when we are making those mistakes. We’re pissin fuel on the fire. We’re making it worse. We don’t realize we are because all we want to do is help, right? We just want to grab them in our arms and squeeze them and tell them how much we love them. But we do it in the wrong way. Whatever I can do to learn more and understand more about the addiction, because at that time, I didn’t look at myself as an addict, right?
Hopefully, hopefully, we can help someone. And also, I started thinking more about it too, that it’s the stigma, I want to get rid of the stigma. You know, I was one that drove downtown Salt Lake City and looked at the addicts down there, and I was one that was in my vehicle going, man, get your act together, what the hell’s wrong with you people bla bla, bla, bla, bla.
Here, I was an addict, not realizing it. Here my wife’s going through addiction. And as I start interviewing people, hearing their stories, some of these people have come through a lot of crap. If I went through what they went through, I’d be numbing myself to, absolutely, because especially even some of the gals the sexual abuse that they went through, and being beaten down, and some had been trafficked. And I’m like, why not? You know.
For me. I believe society looks at addicts and alcoholics like they just wake up one day, and they’re like, I’m going to be an addict. And I’m going to be a damn good addict. It’s not the drugs and alcohol. That’s the band aid.
Margaret 21:26
Well, I’ve treated 23 years in a treatment center. A lot of people with the disease. I’ve never met one, ever who had that plan?
Al: Right? Yeah.
Margaret: I’ve met many who’ve had the opposite plan, because they were born to a family where the disease was prevalent, and they were never going to be like so and so.
To me, that’s evidence it’s a no-fault disease. Because if one went through that, as a child, witnessed the destruction in a parent, they’d never pick up. They’d never have the problem with a drug that they witnessed, that they swore they’d never be like. But none of us coming out of the womb and into our life know whether we are going to be someone who has the disease or not.
Al: Right.
Al: And it is easy to judge when we are also lying to ourselves.
Al 22:21
Yes. And that was one of the reasons too why I wanted to do this podcast, we’ve got to educate people, we’ve got to change it. Because if people started realizing.
And especially here in Utah, with the LDS religion, it’s not as prominent as it has, because we’ve had so many different people come from all over the world now in different states. Moving in here, we were about 80%. Now, I think we’re like around 45/40%. It’s stuff you don’t talk about. You don’t talk about porn addiction, sex addiction, alcohol, drugs, gambling, you just don’t do it. Well, bullcrap. It’s time we start talking about it. Because as we’re talking about it, we’re educating people. We’ll just start knocking a brick out of that wall, one at a time, and hopefully get people to start realizing because, like you said, I’ve had, I don’t know, half a dozen or more people tell me that they have overdosed and made it through. And they are like, Al I didn’t want to overdose. None of us do. It just it happens.
Margaret 23:30
Another example of the powerlessness and the fact that it is a disease is if somebody overdoses, “A Normie.”
Al: Yeah
Margaret: I don’t like the word, but a person who doesn’t have the disease. Wouldn’t let it happen again, when use again, the risk would be too great. That would be too much of a fear. As someone who has a hijacked brain that’s dependent on a substance to survive, that’s what they believe. The risk doesn’t matter.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: And that’s very hard for someone to understand who doesn’t live with the disease. It’s hard for us to understand when we do live with the disease.
Al: Right.
Margaret: let alone for someone who doesn’t.
Al 24:07
I think Utah is in the top five states where we have issues with prescription drugs. And I have a friend who sang in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, who said you cannot believe the Xanax that’s going around before a performance. And she goes, and they all think it’s okay. Why? Because a doctor prescribed it. Well, it falls in that same category, right? I mean, it’s just like me getting up and doing a public speaking if I’m that nervous, where I’ve got to take something to chill me out, to relax me. I have an issue. Doesn’t matter if a doctor prescribed it to me or not. I have an issue.
It’s okay to have these emotions, especially now with our grandkids. We have four amazing grandkids, we have, gosh, three granddaughters and a grandson and I’m doing my best to educate them. Like, it’s okay, if you’re sad. Because God gave us those emotions, just don’t stay there. It’s okay to feel angry. Just don’t stay there. We have all these emotions that God gave us for a reason. And so, we can feel all that we need to feel the happiness and everything and be grateful for it.
However, society in my eyes, I’m not saying this is how it is. But for me, my belief is society has molded us to where we’re not allowed to feel these emotions. We shouldn’t feel these emotions. It’s bad to feel these emotions. So we have to medicate ourselves. So we don’t feel these emotions. And it’s wrong.
Margaret 25:44
So, my feeling on that because we might be a little different in some respects, and similar and others is, I don’t remember society telling me not to have feelings. I remember being scared to death of my own feelings and how I would manage them. And I didn’t think I could survive some of them. I didn’t think I could manage feeling some of them.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: And again, I don’t think it was conscious. But I found something that made me numb, pleasantly numb.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: Till it became unpleasant. And so as a result of that, I feel I didn’t learn how to navigate feelings. I didn’t learn that a feeling was just a feeling and it will pass. I medicated, and I sought others to fix because then I didn’t have to feel my own feelings. I was so preoccupied with theirs.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: Those two are pretty good double whammy that served me for a very long time, till they no longer served me.
Al 26:44
Yeah, good way of putting it. Yeah.
Margaret 26:48
It’s tough, though. Because at some point, that switch is flipped, and we can’t just put it down.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: And that’s where it’s so important to have help. And know that there are resources out there for help. Whatever they are. Gosh, I don’t have the corner market on how someone else finds their wellness. I know what worked for me, and I want it for anyone who’s interested. But I also know that there are many people out there who find their own path and have a great quality of life. And that’s what’s important.
Al 27:19
That’s, yeah, you nailed it. That is what’s important, because we’ve had guests on that. They’re like, no, I don’t care for the 12 step program. Didn’t do anything for me. But they found something different. Some have fallen into, like Native American type kind of rituals and others just
Margaret: Buddhism
Al: got it on their own. Buddhism. Yeah. You know, so it’s just whatever fits, and it’s okay, right? I mean, it’s okay, whatever works for that individual, so long as they’re getting to where they want to go. Amen.
Margaret 27:49
Peace of mind, and ability to be content in one’s own skin. Ability to have relations with people that we care about. Communication, you talked about, it is re-learning how to have a conversation where we’re not trigger happy, and reactive, but actually listening and engaging from my feeling place to your feeling place.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: Those are huge steps. And they’re practice after practice, after practice, when you’ve done it for way for such a long time. So I really appreciate that, that is what you and your wife are choosing to do. Because that’s not easy work. And many people don’t want to do that work. It’s too painful.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: Being vulnerable is hard.
Al 28:29
Oh yes it is, you got that right.
Margaret 28:33
And yet, who are we most drawn to? And this is what cracks me up about it. I am drawn to the person who will be vulnerable. I am in awe of a person who will be vulnerable and yet by God let me not show that part of me. Right. It’s amazing. We humans are really interesting creatures.
Al 28:50
Yes, we are, you got that right.
Margaret 28:54
So, is there anything else that you would want to share that you haven’t shared that’s important around your journey, your family’s journey?
Al 29:05
Oh, man. You know, I guess about the only thing I could think of that comes to mind is keep an open mind. Open your eyes. Don’t be so quick to judge. We all have issues in our lives. We all have problems. Some are the same. Some are not. Just keep those eyes open. Watch and listen. And as you might even hear, I know it’s said hear a lot here in Salt Lake, you know, stay on your side of the street. Drive your own car, you don’t need to be getting in anyone else’s and telling them how to drive. Because it’s really made my life a lot better. And also knowing that I would say do your best not to control your life. Life is going to go the direction it’s supposed to go and it’s meant to go that direction. There’s certain things that you can control and certain things that you can’t control and the wisdom to know the difference, right?
Margaret 30:01
The serenity prayer.
Al 30:04
Yeah, the Serenity Prayer. So, there are things that my old self, I’d be going oh, no, no, no, no, I’m not going this direction, and I’m going to do everything I can to make sure I don’t. Now it’s like, alright, well, I don’t know where this is going. But let’s see what happens.
Margaret 30:21
So it sounds like a combination of letting go, surrendering yourself, your life, and the people who you love lives to the care of their higher power.
Al 30:29
Yeah, pretty much.
Margaret 30:32
It’s funny how you’ve referenced ‘Jesus Take the Wheel,’ and that you had to learn to stop trying to drive your wife’s car. My journey required not only stopping driving my ex’s car, I had to learn to stop driving mine.
Al: Ah.
Margaret: Because I was a control freak to the nth degree. And I would be out there trying to get everybody going in the right direction and flipping buses going down the interstate, and I couldn’t even control my own. It was a bit of a crap show.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: And so, for me. My goal in life and the visual that I use to help me is, I really want to get to the point in my journey of recovery that I can sit on the back seat, that bumpy ride on the back of the bus. And I can trust my higher power has my wheel. And my loved one’s higher powers have their wheel and not me, because they are much better driver than I.
But I have to be honest, Al. I think the journey of recovery, despite being in it for a long time, is a battle within myself of not running for my wheel when I think I know best, but actually pausing, and using my recovery tools around me to keep me on that back seat.
Al: Yeah.
Margaret: And I guess my thought on that is, as long as I am willing, to your mind, staying open minded, and keeping my heart and mind open. To not wanting to go back to where I was. And stay open to the messengers like you do in your interviews, because that’s obviously what’s given you so much to help you on your path, that I’ll get the right messages to help me stay at the back of the bus.
Al: Yeah, yeah.
Margaret: And I wish that for you.
Al 32:26
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Margaret 32:29
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your candor and your honesty, and sharing your story. Totally went to a different direction than I expected. That’s part of what I love about doing these podcasts because it’s not my job to control it, it’s my job to go along for the ride and I feel like we did that tonight and I appreciate that.
Al 32:47
Well thank you and thank you so much for allowing me to be on your show. I greatly, greatly appreciate it and I’m looking forward to the day that you’re, that you’re on ours.
Margaret 32:54
I am also, I am also.
Outro: Al Richards demonstrates through being fearlessly open that recovery can look different for each individual. 12 step recovery gave me my life, and I believe in it. However, I know my way is not everyone’s path, and I am grateful for the ever-wide variety of paths for people to choose from to find their own wellness in this journey from the disease of addiction.
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website:
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
