Today Dr. Sarah Bridges, the author of Hotdogs Anonymous, is back! We speak more about the realities of the impact of this generational disease and how knowledge is empowering.
Learning will not prevent a person from having the disease of addiction; however, it can lessen the risks and harm of being naive, which Sarah’s story demonstrates.
Sarah’s experience fueled her desire to teach her children, and through ‘Hotdogs Annonymous, ‘ offer a tool to the world to help reach and teach future generations!
Learn more about Dr. Sarah Bridges at Bridges Consulting.
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See full transcript below.
00:00
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast, a place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back! Today we are visiting with Sarah Bridges. She is the author of ‘Hotdogs Anonymous’ and the founder and leader of Bridges Consulting. I will have information about her business in the show notes attached to this episode. Today Dr. Sarah Bridges and I talk more about generational disease of addiction and the impact of recovery. From things about vulnerability, connection and how she might even write another children’s book let’s get back to Sarah!
00:50
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret 01:06
When you wrote this and put it out into the world knowing that there wasn’t a lot out there was it received well? Did you get a chance to see the benefits that it was causing in families lives? Like? How did that all work? Were you able to do readings or anything like that?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 01:21
I did do a number of readings. I think the most heartening thing has been receiving emails and messages through different forums from mainly parents, people in recovery, talking about being able to sit down and talk through with their kids.
The other thing that’s happened, which is really wonderful is a number of parents who are not themselves addicts, but children of addicts. Now, they’re getting married. Now they’re having kids. And one said to me recently, we want to be open with our kids, that they need to really know about the history here. This book is giving us a chance to really sit down and talk about it from the start. In a way that kids can understand before they’re older.
Margaret 02:05
Talk about working on looking at a generational relationship with addiction, right trying to stop the patterning. I mean, none of us know who has the disease. But to know that you can implant those resources and that there is a way out. Young.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 02:22
Yeah, exactly right. I mean, in our own family, three of my four grandparents were very active alcoholics, one died young, neither of my parents were. And then we come to my generation, neither of my sisters are and from the first time I drank in any serious way, in college, I was addicted my sophomore year. While I was aware, my grandparents drank too much we didn’t talk about you know, and that means Be careful, we are different. So of course, that’s been very different with my own kids and grace be to God. None of them have thus far developed any addictions. But I would have loved to have known that earlier really understood that I don’t think my own parents understood it fully.
Margaret 03:10
Well, what resources were they given?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 03:11
Yeah, seriously?
Margaret 03:15
Yeah, we’ve come a long way. And that is one of the things about people who are choosing to share, and I agree with you, everyone has the right and needs to pick how they go forward in their recovery. But thanks be to those who have chosen to share their story and memoirs and children’s books in any capacity, in speaking, just even the format of meetings to go to a speaker’s meeting and hear other people and relate, feel less alone and less shame. But those who go out and talk about it, really help I think those out there who’ve never had exposure or anyone, talk to them about it.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yes.
Margaret: And I think about your children when it comes to them having children if they do, what a gift, that they already have a sense of understanding of the ramifications of disease, also, that we can’t prevent someone from having it but we can certainly slow down onset.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: That’s right
Margaret: By talking about the risk.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 04:08
That is so right. And just and also being tuned in if things are out of the norm. So, for instance, my sophomore year, I had a blackout drinking, I didn’t know what a blackout was. And I remember talking to a friend and saying it’s so weird. I can’t remember the evening I had no clue that was a sign, wow. That’s not normal, you know, to be having that a year into drinking and then it became routine. So even to know what to be aware of. What to be careful of the some families we’re just not like the rest of the families with this. Just like some people can’t eat peanuts or fish. We need to just know if we’re different.
Margaret 04:51
Right? And I don’t know, I’m curious there. It’s obviously hindsight. We’d have no way to know this. Do you think you know sophomore year in college, freshman year in college is a kind of a normal time for people to experiment. It’s a culture where it’s very prevalent, it’s very talked about it’s accessible. Do you think having this information ahead of that and knowing a little more about your family history would have changed that trajectory for you? I know it’s a hard question.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 05:19
Yeah, I bet it would not have changed my exposure. The piece I wish I had kind of caught on to sooner. I was very slow and catching on that the consequences I was having were not normative. I talked to one good friend and said, oh, I’m forgetting things. Yes, people may have a blackout in college, I was having it every time. I was the one who had start drinking before the party. I didn’t know that was a sign of something. I wasn’t aware it’s not normal. Once you have one drink, you don’t know how many you’re gonna have. And that’s the point I got to by sophomore year. So, I think even being aware sooner than I should have been worried about myself. Which sounds funny, as opposed to kind of writing it off to partying like everybody is in college. I wasn’t partying like everybody was in college.
Margaret 06:13
Yeah, I think you bring up a good point of knowing some of the information about the disease, the progression, the consequences, the physiological aspects of it, so people understand it better. That’s a tough one.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 06:25
It’s a tough one. And I don’t know. And of course, I don’t know if any of my four kids are genetically predisposed,
Margaret: Right?
Dr. Sarah Bridges: In the same way I am. What I will say is, for instance, my daughter has never drunk she said, um, too much problems in the family. My son’s each occasionally will have a drink, but are very cognizant, just don’t drink a lot. And I don’t know if that’s the generations have gotten smarter about things. Maybe I would have been smarter. I just never even had a conversation though about, you know, be cautious here. So, it’s hard to say. But I think intervening sooner would have been a good thing with me. But college is tough because of how many people are doing it? I have no doubt about that.
Margaret 07:12
it is interesting. I recently interviewed and it’s airing right now, the new adolescents Virtual Family program that’s being offered through Hazelden, which is 13 through 18,12, through 18. And it’s for young people to come for a couple hours to get a basic education of the disease and start getting language and having a conversation when it’s someone in their family. And one of the fears is will I say something that plants a seed to make it happen. And research shows that is absolutely inaccurate. Talking about it does not make someone more likely to be an alcoholic or addict. They are or they aren’t. What it affords them is information to make healthier choices and to be like your children thoughtful about whether the risk is worth it for them.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 08:02
Totally. Yeah, I, we’re a small subgroup of for to measure from but man, we talked about it from the time they were very little. Really talked about it and talked openly. I was open about my own history open about obviously going to rehab and visited me there and all of that. So, I don’t know exactly, but I am very strongly leaning on the side, I just think information gives people more choices you’re saying.
Margaret 08:36
And power, it empowers them. You know, being in the dark, it’s very easy to fall into something you’re oblivious to. But being aware of it can help you make choices that are different just to be cautious or not. None of us know if we’re predisposed until that switch is flipped. You know, once that goes, then we’re on the road. But yeah, I think just even for young people know that their frontal cortex is not fully online till 25. And giving yourself a chance to get that level of maturity before introducing mood altering substances gives you a better chance, even though it doesn’t eradicate it. It’s just information. And I think Information is power.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 09:16
I really strongly agree with that. I think it’s really helpful in part of the information also with the kids knowing that who knows how people are going to end up with being really open about what you do with this kind of intractable problem. So being super open about recovery and meetings. We had one very notable day when Jack and Noah, the ones in this book were eight and six. I brought them with me to a meeting every Saturday and our routine was we get a Subway sandwich, and then they get to watch a movie while I was in the meeting. And we’re in subway and Noah who’s six screamed at Jack hurry up Jack, we’re going to be late for AA! (laughter) And people in Subway turned and looked. And it was such a comical thing that to them, it was just we’re headed to AA.
Margaret 10:09
How beautiful is that there’s no shame, it’s part of life. And the thing that’s amazing Sarah and you’ve seen this in your own journey, I’m sure, and in the people, you go to meetings with We’re trying to keep the secret when we’re living in it. We’re trying to keep everyone from knowing because the disease requires that of us because the disease needs us in isolation.
We get into recovery, and we think we’ve got to keep it quiet because of the shame, and I ended up here and so forth. When you’re in recover, we’re doing the right thing for our illness, there’s nothing to be ashamed about.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 10:41
Nothing to be ashamed about. And I just am here to say it again, choose the people you trust, but it has led to nothing but deeper connection with people. Nothing, but that, I mean being able to say, yeah, this is something I really struggled with. It’s just fascinating to see how much that creates space for other people to say, oh, my gosh, you know, I’ve been really struggling with anxiety during the pandemic. And then we can talk on a different level, as opposed to everything’s always great all the time. Everything’s not always great all the time, at least in my world.it’s not,
Margaret 11:20
I don’t think it isn’t anyone’s world.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 11:21
I don’t think it is in anyone’s world and being able to be real like that. I don’t know because that connection is the antidote to the isolation when we’re in it. And I don’t know how to do that without being open with people.
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12:24
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Margaret 12:36
When you wrote the book, you made a conscious choice to use language, accurate language of recovery, Such as the meetings.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yeah,
Margaret: I think sponsorship, right.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: yeah,
Margaret: You put in there step language. Is very much, I don’t want to say adult language, but recovery language, it’s what we use in rooms. But it’s from these dogs about the hotdogs. And so, when you were writing it, was there thinking about I want to use the accurate terms, or was that because you did it in your family that way? You know, how’d you get to that point? Because there’s a lot of books out there that sort of skirt around it, but don’t actually use the terms?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 13:16
Yeah, yeah, I think it was just so much part of our language, that it was just how we talked about it. But it was also wanting to be accurate about it. How does this work? This is how it works. If there was anything kids or other people took away, and I hope it’s the biggest lesson my own kids take, of course, they saw me struggling and everything. But I, I want all of us in recovery to also show people whether it’s addiction or other problems we have, things can get better. There is a path to getting better and staying better. And they talk about suicide, even separate from addiction as really being a disease of hopelessness, we just come to a point we feel there’s no way out. And that is never true. But the way out is through other people and connecting to people who have done it, who have figured it out, who will support you, connect you to something bigger.
Margaret 14:13
And how does that happen if we don’t share?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 14:17
It doesn’t. And I relate to this. At Hazelden, they talked about it’s hard when you have you know, a second job and the second one’s secret. It’s exhausting, trying to look like I have it together while I’m falling apart. I mean, that’s a tough combo and to get to just be open relieves that.
Margaret 14:38
Absolutely. The other piece that I felt very deeply to my core was my fraudulence.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yes,
Margaret: Here I am someone who’s helping people, here I am working in the field. Here I am educating and counseling people to do what I’m not able to do. That was destroying my soul.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 15:00
Oh, of course.
Margaret 15:01
And yet the solution, was to go back to what was destroying my soul.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 15:07
I so understand that.
Margaret 15:09
And I don’t know if you experienced this because you were obviously in the work you’re doing when you went through your return to use. Did you go to treatment the first time? Or was it in the rooms? The first time
Dr. Sarah Bridges: I went to treatment when I was 23?
Margaret: Okay. Thank you for that. And so when you went the second time,
Dr. Sarah Bridges: yeah.
Margaret: Did you fear your capacity to do your work? Well, if you weren’t using even though you knew using wasn’t helping, because I really struggled with that.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 15:37
As in, would I be able to go back and do the consulting and everything else? I worried, being able to kind of cope with life’s stress. So, part of that was work, part of that is just trying to do a million things at once, as a lot of us family, people can relate to who work. And what’s so crazy, I think anyone who has not had that addiction, again, is that even though we see this destruction, we’re losing our coping device. And that is the swing when you’re in between the trapeze. I haven’t yet gotten into the safety of recovery with other people in higher power. And yet, you’re pulling away the one thing that I believe is keeping it all together. And it’s really scary.
Margaret 16:27
That’s a great visual. And that’s exactly what it feels like if I let go of this to go to that. What if that doesn’t work, whereas least I know what this does. Even though I can’t stand what it’s doing, I know what it can do for me.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 16:40
Totally. Yeah. And as crazy as that sounds, that’s how it feels in that in between space.
Margaret 16:47
I wonder if we can take that across to the family side. So that doesn’t feel so out there to think about our addict thinking that way or addicted person. But as a family member, one of the most common things I would hear when someone was getting into recovery in their life. So, their partner their child. How will we do this? What’s this going to look like? I don’t know how to not worry. I don’t know how to not try to manage. How do I say the right thing and do the right thing? That even though it doesn’t necessarily feel as extreme and like I have to have this to function.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yeah.
Margaret: Family members do that similar trapeze of
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yes.
Margaret: When my loved one doesn’t need me, or find stability? What’s my purpose?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 17:36
I have huge empathy for that. I think that’s just as groundless as feeling like you’re pulling away my coping, in my case, a bottle. Your case food it could be. I think that’s really real. And I guess what I would say is, there’s also a way we’re totally in this together for both coming out this brand new. Everybody’s losing control. And there’s all sorts of new things opening up. It’s such a paradox. It’s both.
I mean, what is really helpful, I think, on both sides is even to be able to say, I don’t know right now, even how to show up for you. I don’t know how to, anything, and there’s a way we can connect in that vulnerability. But I have huge empathy for that. That just is a big shift. Yeah, everyone around us is trying so hard to keep us in line or help us out or whatever,
Margaret 18:32
Keep us alive,
Dr. Sarah Bridges; Keep us alive.
Margaret: Some people. It’s that dire. It’s gotten so bad that all we’re trying to do is keep the personnel live and that negotiation of do I give them alcohol or do I do I do I just keep Narcan all around, which I highly recommend. I think all of us should carry Narcan. Yes, that’s an aside, it’s we could have a whole discussion about that. But I do think that it’s a navigation of my values in my disease got hijacked by my disease. My values as a loved one when I love some with this disease got hijacked by the same disease, and I started doing things I couldn’t believe I was doing. Totally.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 19:09
Totally. I know that true. And when you’re around any of us in the midst of all this wildness and makes you wild, too. I mean, you’re responding to something that doesn’t make sense and doing your best to keep things afloat,
Margaret: Right.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: I can’t even imagine what I mean. I guess I can imagine a tiny bit only with my son with all of his severe health problems and disabilities. All I know is that by the end of it, I was pretty sick. Because I was so focused on fixing him. I mean, not sleeping, not anything. And that’s so tough.
Margaret 19:47
How do you do a different and recover, with your son?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 19:52
That is really funny. I had an epiphany one day and I’d like to tell you it was right away. It wasn’t it was years later. For I had been so fixated on how I was going to basically fix his brain, you know, help him. And one day I watched him in the park, and he had bubbles, was blowing bubbles. He loved doing that. And he brought it over to our golden retriever. Held the wand out and said blow. And I, and then laughed, and I thought, whose brain needs fixing in this scenario? Who’s the brain that needs some help here? I mean, he, we joke that he’s the best adjusted one in our family. And he is. He’s happy and calm and loves his food and his Pocahontas video, and I don’t know, I have come full circle on how I see his existence. Looks pretty darn good. He’s very un-neurotic and just really shifted. It’s when I was trying to change who he was. And fundamentally, what his wiring was.
Margaret 20:56
dropped the mic. Is that not the same with addiction?
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yeah,
Margaret: We cannot change anyone else. We can only work hard on healing and repairing and finding strategies to help ourselves. And in that we help them more. Because when you got that message, I’m guessing some of that angst just lessened, and you were able to be present in a different way.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 21:19
Totally present in a different way and just enjoy Him for who he is.
Margaret 21:23
And yet again, another dog.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: That’s right.
Margaret: Sounds like another book.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 21:30
I like it. Actually that’s a really good idea.
Margaret 21:34
It is a really good idea. Because I know people, you know, when it comes to children on the spectrum, children’s with neurodivergent issues. There is a lot starting to come out. But it’s another one that seems to be kept in the dark a lot.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Oh, yeah.
Margaret: I think that could be a beautiful book for families.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 21:52
I love that. I think that’s an excellent idea.
Margaret 21:56
I love the message. And it feels like one of my favorite things, which is keep it simple sweetheart. Like his capacity, which we see as maybe a negative, because he doesn’t get to have everything, we perceive he should have. This is just my language, please correct it.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yeah.
Margaret: He has a happiness in what his existence truly is, and doesn’t fight it.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 22:20
He is my greatest teacher on acceptance. I mean, there’s a lot of things objectively hurt, he has seizures, he’s fallen down and gotten injured. And we had one particular day he had a seizure. And he ended up with a big bruise and was in the hospital and had an IV and got stitches. And at the end of it, he said phew, that was a busy day. And I thought oh my god. I mean, it’s just a really different way of going through the world.
Margaret: Yeah.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: It was a busy day.
Margaret 22:54
Yeah. What a teacher.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Yeah,
Margaret: I can only imagine how freaking phenomenal you are what you do, from the standpoint of I have no doubt your academic training is insanely wonderful. And you offer all of that. But I love your authenticity, and your willingness to tie in the gifts you’ve been given through the challenges you faced. That would make you an amazing person to work with in the world that you work in, because my god, vulnerability probably doesn’t come off as the first thing to show up with in a corporate setting.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 23:27
Often not, thank you for what you said, and I’m so lucky for the people I work with. But that is something there’s not enough of. And I think that’s part of the stress people are feeling especially as mental health issues are up with the pandemic. And yet we still, still got a lot of like we got it together.
Margaret 23:48
Right. And yet, I don’t know about any other human being but the people that I feel gravitated towards, or those who show their underbelly and show their vulnerability and show their struggles and their ways through their struggles. Like that just draws me, always has.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 24:06
Oh, same I always have felt like I’m much more drawn to people that are deep than just kind of floating along. Everything’s fine. And often it’s I wouldn’t say always it’s people who’ve gone through something. You know, there’s just a wisdom and a knowledge that comes with that, an empathy and understanding a relatability it’s just, yeah, something special.
Margaret 24:35
It is. It also gives us permission to do the same.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 24:39
It does. Yeah, I think there’s an immediate safety when someone does that when connecting with them.
Margaret 24:45
I agree. I’m so grateful that you stood up and decided to share your story and that your family were generous enough to share, Hank/Riley with the rest of the world. Because I don’t know you truly can grasp other than witnessing it in your own family, which is a serious message. The reach that this book offers.
Dr. Sarah Bridges: Hmm.
Margaret: I think of children going into libraries and just picking up a book and reading it. And maybe no one in the family has ever said a word but reading it could help them understand what they’ve been living. That’s amazing. And if it weren’t for people like you, who would put it in writing and put it out there, so that children could hear it, read it, see it, they may not understand till their late teens, or 20s.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 25:40
Thank you, if that even helps one kid, I? I am so happy.
Margaret 25:46
Oh, it does. It has. Is there anything you would want to share that we haven’t touched on based on your experience as a woman and long term recovery, as a mother, as a person on this journey that you think could be helpful for family members out there?
Dr. Sarah Bridges 26:01
I think the thing that really comes to my mind is that the real beauty is in sticking with it. Even if you have a setback, even if it’s hard.
And the second piece that I think about is it’s always through connection to other people that we heal. And the only way we can do that is in being open about it. And whether that’s in the rooms or you know, their settings, we can get better, we can get better. I don’t care who you are what you’ve been through, you can get better.
Margaret 26:36
This too shall pass.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 26:39
It absolutely will.
Margaret 26:41
No, I agree. And I thank you for that. I think that the piece that we have to counter in our society right now, in my opinion, is there’s a lot of turmoil, negativity, looking at glass half empty. And it’s really easy to go down those rabbit holes. So, anything that can offer people hope and a way forward, and a path out. And you are someone who’s shown that in this book, and I’m sure in your work that you do.
And I thank you, Sarah, I’m so, so honored to have met you and to have on my podcasts and sharing your book with so many people.
To get the chance to meet you and know that I’ve loved this book for so long. And I’ve used it with so many people and when you say one person be helped. I have no doubt many, many people have been helped, and now many more might hear about it, who don’t know about it. And that’s great. Well,
Dr. Sarah Bridges 27:35
Well, thank you so much for having me and just this great conversation. It feels so good to be able to have a real conversation like this. Thank you for what you’re doing.
Margaret 27:45
Thank you and thank you for being my guest on the podcast.
Dr. Sarah Bridges 27:49
You got it.
Outro: I cannot encourage you loudly enough to grab your own copy of Hotdogs Anonymous by Dr. Sarah Bridges. Whether you’re a guardian, a teacher, a parent, a grandparent this book is a fantastic teaching tool, conversation starter around the family disease of addiction.
Knowledge is definitely empowering and Sarah’s story shares how her struggles may have been more challenging as she was very unaware and naive about the family disease of addiction when she was in college.
Thank you, Sarah for writing one of my most favorite and cherished books that I share with many members. Your words have helped tremendously.
Margaret 28:32
I want to thank my guest for their courage and vulnerability and sharing parts of their story. Please find resources on my website.
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you.
