This episode of the Embrace Family Resource Podcast features the return of Jessica Garrison, supervisor of the Hazelden Betty Ford Virtual Family Program, and Lindsey Chadwick, Manager of the Hazelden Betty Ford Children’s Program.
They have recently created and rolled out a much-needed Virtual Family Program for Adolescents. This episode is jam-packed with resources and takeaways for anyone who has adolescents in their family.
The Embrace family Recovery Coaching Group continues February 22 at 8:00 pm EST. Our topic will be Powerlessness.
Click this link to register:
https://sites.google.com/view/efr-coaching-group/home
embracefamilyrecovery #podcast #recovery #addiction #adolescentprogram #education #HBFF #addictionrecovery #addictionawareness #addictiontreatment #addictions #familyrecovery #familyrecoverycoach #familyrecoverycoaching #familyaddiction #familyaddictionrecovery #recoverysupport #recoverysupportgroup #recoverysupportservices
Click here to grab your copy of Healthy Strategies for Family Members to Cope and Even Thrive Through Addiction and receive my weekly newsletter.
Click the links below to follow me on social media:
See Full Transcript Below
00:01
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. A place for real conversations with people who love someone with the disease of addiction. Now here is your host, Margaret Swift Thompson.
Intro: Welcome back! Today we rejoin Jessica and Lindsey the creators of the Hazelden Betty Ford Virtual Family Program for Adolescents.
We will cover many subjects today secrets, social media, the power of open communication, the vitality of curiosity, and trying to let go of our fears.
Let’s rejoin Jessica and Lindsey.
01:25
The Embrace Family Recovery Podcast
Margaret 01:42
Secrets are a part of the illness we know that to be true. Do the adolescents that seek the time in your program. Do they talk about having places other than home to go, that they talk to peers? Or is that a struggle for them? What are you hearing from them?
Lindsey 02:02
That was a topic of discussion in our last group a little bit of like, maybe you feel like you can’t go to your family members right now. Like what do you do? So Jessica asked them all a great question like, what do you do for yourself care? Like, what’s one thing you do that brings you joy, and there’s an escape for you? That’s healthy, obviously.
And having them acknowledge that’s really great, because we do hear sometimes that people within their family are all really caught up in the disease, and it doesn’t feel like it’s something they want to go to.
So, we encourage like, friends or therapists or counselors at school. Teachers, coaches, you know, what are other safe adults in your family that you can reach out to? Because it certainly makes sense that maybe their family isn’t in a place to really support them at this moment when it feels like a lot of the attentions, maybe on the person who’s been struggling? And obviously Jessica and I reach out, let them know, they’re able to reach out to us as well, if they find they need more support. And we try to connect them with some resources too. But yeah, definitely hearing that. Sometimes it can be very isolating, like, none of my friends have this problem in their family. And I do think that’s a great part about them joining into group knowing that they’re not alone, but maybe acknowledging like, maybe I should find someone to talk to you.
Jessica 03:19
Yeah. And I love it when we have siblings join together. Because I know I often remind them, like you guys have each other, make sure you’re sharing with one another, talking about this. And I think that allows them that ally within their own family system to say, okay, like we can do different, we can do better. And we are, you know, important, or we’re valued and with one another. And so, I think that creates that other level of support and reminder that this isn’t their fault.
Margaret 03:47
So, I know before we got on, I was talking about Tik Tok, we were chatting about that for a second. But you know, I’ll age myself here looking at the two of you. I’m a little senior to the two of you, which is fine. But one of the things that I wonder greatly about when I was coming up there was none of that. It was an encyclopedia on the shelf, right? So, then you go into the internet and access to gaining information. And my daughters have taught me that even though I may be very open with them. They’re going to search things up and learn all sorts of things that I wish they hadn’t. Right?
One of the things that has evolved with Tik Tok though it has major issues on many levels because of the addictive nature of it. It’s opened a dialogue, it appears for young people to put out there the disease’s in my home, mental illnesses in my home, more openness about LGBTQ and I’m wondering if you’re seeing any change and maybe it’s too soon because you’ve just launched this but you know, in your time working, because both of you have been working with adolescents or young people for a significant amount of time. Are you seeing that impact their knowledge base their experience in any positive or negative ways?
Jessica 04:57
I think I see both. Blast Sure I worked in our local high school and did therapy with students, and then over 20 years ago started with adolescents in a very different capacity. And then in treatment.
I definitely see both good and bad, right, the negative and the positive as far as what the internet, and social media, and Tik Tok, and all of those can bring that ability to connect, but also, that sort of black hole of really scary things that it can show too. And so, I think like any technology, what are the pros and cons of it? And how do we utilize it, or remind kids to utilize it for helpful things? And in fact, I was just talking with a parent today about this. As a parent, you will never, never be two steps ahead of your kids. As far as technology goes. I mean, my nine-year-old knows how to work my phone better than I do. The reality is, is we won’t, right? And so how do we, one not allow social media to stay on social media, like talk about those things that are on Tik Tok? Verbally, in real time with your kids, and I do it with the teenagers and adolescents that I work with? And I know a lot of the things that I worked with the kids on, when I was doing therapy last year was how do I not let my phone control me but use it for helpful things. like I found great as homework feedback on there, or I was able to connect with my friends. And there’s a balance, like with all things that we have to remind ourselves that this is a tool. It is a tool, that can be helpful. But if we don’t talk about it, it really does allow for that, like, well, what else is on there? What can I use this for? Right? I think when we talk about it, it reminds kids that it’s not this secret, it doesn’t keep staying the dark. It’s not a secret, like you said. It’s not something that can keep the family sick either in other ways, not just with substance use.
Lindsey 06:49
Yeah, I think Jessica said most of it, but obviously it’s the both and like can be a great tool to find community, to find information, to see that you’re not alone, and to share. I know a group of our alumni kids from before it all started, like a discord chat. And they all talk on there to think is like so sweet and cute. And just like I love that they found that connection where they can be different, and feel heard, and understood.
But at the same time yet, there’s obviously a lot of pitfalls to social media and finding information. That’s not correct. And especially just with, you can find whatever you’re looking for, right? If you want to find it, something’s good for you, when it’s not, you can find that and you could find the opposite. So definitely a good conversation that obviously have with adolescents. And just knowing that social media doesn’t define you and it there’s good and bad information out there. And like Jessica, you were saying like to use it as a tool for good and have boundaries with that as well. And I do think something that we could see further on, I’m sure we already are is that kids are isolating by only accessing social media and not reaching out for like physical connection or kind of just falling more and more deep into like that internal hole and not reaching out for help when they maybe need to from people that’s the more tangible source to so. Both and I would say.
Margaret 08:14
Yeah. Sounds very much like I hear from the parents I coach and the adults, the struggle of your child’s backyard is now the world.
Jessica: Yeah,
Margaret: and you can’t manage that. Love however what you’re saying, bring it to the light. Meaning talk about it, like have the kids share with you, you know, something they liked, didn’t like something that can start a discussion. Yes,
Jessica 08:41
Yes, that’s a really good tip. Margaret, I think that’s so important to just again, how do we get into our kid’s worlds. And that’s one way to do that, right? Don’t let social media become their identity, use that as an opportunity to instill values and to challenge their thinking. Because that’s why it’s not bad until it to used. They’re not inherently bad. However, this is what I’m seeing, as far as behaviors go. This is my concerns as a parent. And this is why I’m setting up boundaries around that right. I think kind of some other things we were talking about earlier, like how do we allow for those difficult conversations with our kids and how valuable that skill in general is, for life and for relationships and jobs and just general life skills is having these conversations about things that are going on and allowing them all to come to the light so that they don’t stay in the corner there and that teaches us how to relate in relationships in more healthy ways. I told her very clearly, I said I would tell anyone, do not leave whatever happens on social media on social media. Talk about it doesn’t matter what it is talk about it. Because the more we do that, the better I think we become as a society.
09:52
This podcast is made possible by listeners like you.
Bumper: Are you feeling tired, alone, confused or in a perpetual place of worry, and fear.
If inside you answered yes to any of these, have I got the resource for you.
Join us in the Embrace Family Recovery Coaching Group where we meet to learn more about this family disease, build a community of support, and gain strategies and tools helping us navigate real-time experiences when we love someone with the disease of addiction.
The virtual group is on Wednesday nights twice a month at 8:00 PM Eastern Standard Time for 90 minutes.
It’s a closed group so registration is required.
To register please see the link in the show notes below.
10:45
You’re listening to the Embrace Family Recovery Podcast. Can you relate to what you’re hearing? Never miss a show by hitting the subscribe button. Now back to the show.
Margaret 10:59
I heard something yesterday that that was a genius approach to parenting but also to people in general. Go into conversations, not with judgment and assumption, but an openness and curiosity.
Jessica: Yeah.
Margaret: And I thought, what a beautiful way for us adults to reach out to our younger members of our family, right? Teach me, share with me, offer to me. Now where we have to do our work is when we hear things we don’t like, not freaking out, taking that pause,
Jessica: Right.
Margaret: and absorbing it and then figuring out where to go from there.
Jessica 11:33
Yeah, I was listening to neuroscientists this morning, because that’s what I do. In my free time. I just listen to neuroscientists,
Margaret: Of course, you do,
Jessica: Right? But they’re super fascinating. And so, the person that was in there that they were interviewing, does a lot of work around social and emotional learning and our brains, and how we function and she was talking about perception. And that reminder that our brains are like fingerprints. Right? And so how do we really not I think, Margaret, what you said is not go into with judgment, right? And I think sometimes that out of love, like they can’t handle this or out of fear, of oh, no, what are they going to do with this? That is assuming then that their brains are like yours, or they’re going to take this information in like yours. And so, if we can approach it without judgment, that goes a really long way to allowing us as parents and of school worker or of whoever’s listening to this right, to work with kids in a different way, and say, let me just learn who you are.
Margaret: Love that.
Jessica: And help instill growth and change and values over time to. Not instill my fears in you. And I think we could have a whole other podcast on a lot of things out there as to what I think is happening with a lot of things and why we do that, right? We’re approaching it with oh, no, this happened to me, I don’t want it to happen to you. We can’t do that. That’s really dangerous. And I think we hold a lot of influence and power over young people when we approach conversations in that way.
Margaret 12:55
Speak to that, though, because the reality is, and either of you. Can you see it in your work? I see it in my work. We have a lot of people in a lot of pain and fear showing up for services.
Jessica: Yeah.
Margaret: So, what would you give the adults who are surrounding the teenagers you’re serving? Or the kids who you’re serving? What would you suggest for them to help them not approach from Oh, my God, I happen to me, oh, my gosh, and the fear reaction that they come with?
Jessica 13:26
Yeah, one I tell them to get a lot of support for themselves? You know, do that first, right, do that first. And I think work through the trauma that you really have underneath that, right. There’s a lot of things that we define now as trauma, which I think is good expanding that definition of that a little bit. And not in turn putting that same trauma on somebody else, which I think is what I ultimately, very loosely would define that as, that could happen. But I think with that fear, right? One, recognize that fear. And I think in that conversation with kids with adolescents, approach with openness. Right approach with curiosity, man, tell me more about what it is you’re thinking. What are your thoughts on this right? And then using their language? To then reflect, man this is what I heard you say, you know, I heard you say, like, for a younger kid might be daddy doesn’t seem to be around or Mommy doesn’t seem to be, you know, very awake all the time. She seems super sleepy, right? To where an adolescent would be like, I know, I think an adolescent honestly could name it, even if they didn’t see the use. I think they could name what it is. And I think not automatically saying what it is but allowing them to verbalize it to them too. And then reflecting that back to them with open ended questions. Right. I think that’s how we stay out of that place of fear, is wanting to guard their thoughts and correct it. And say, no, no, you shouldn’t be thinking this way. Or you could do this. Let’s try that way. But I think approaching it with tell me more about that. What are your thoughts on that? What are your feelings on that. You know, where are you hearing that? Where did you see that? Asking all that? Who, what, when, where, why, and how, and it informs us of the world that honestly, I think of the world today and informs us adults of what’s going on in the world today more as well.
Lindsey 15:16
Yeah, I would absolutely. Second all of that. And add, there’s a lot to be said for modeling. Talking about, hey, I know in our family, we haven’t talked about feelings very much. I want you to know, like, I feel sad and scared about this happening to tell me how you feel. Just meeting kids where they’re at. And like you were saying, Jessica, like with language, younger kids don’t always have feelings language. So, you may have to kind of help them even knowing what feelings are happening. We use a lot of feelings, charts with kids’ kind of in that 12 to 5 range can be really helpful, they can point and talk about it.
The other important piece that you all both have touched on is just that guilt and shame that caregivers experience. And a lot of the time when they’re not sure how to go about things like feeling like they have to have all the answers, like you were saying, and one of the things we try to empower caregivers with is you don’t have to know the answers. Sometimes your job is just to listen. And kids don’t get listened to enough. We know that in families, kids are the one of the first hurt, this goes for all ages first hurt, and last helped. So, you know that their voice deserves to be heard. And sometimes just sitting down and saying, you know, what has this been like for you? It’s not a question kids are ever asked, especially when the chaos of addiction has been kind of going throughout the family.
So, the first thing is not only just kind of, like I was saying about getting that support for yourself, so that you feel safe and empowered. And a little bit, you know, there’s lots of resources out there to learn language to talk about it, how to talk about it. But it also really shows your kids that it’s okay to ask for help. It’s great modeling that, you know, I needed something and I’m getting this help. And now this is your turn.
I love that kids get connected to the Children’s Program or the Teen Program after their loved ones have been through treatment or the Family Program, because that’s showing them that we’re doing this. And now it’s your turn, because I have a lot of people do the kind of like they need help. Not me, though. And it’s like, they always are a little shocked when you turn that around to say no, you actually are the one who needs the most support right now. If you’re supported, your kids will feel a lot better.
It’s like that airplane metaphor, you can’t put their mask on first if you don’t have your mask on, because if something happens to you, no one’s able to help them. So, you really need to take care of yourself and do that work and work through some of that shame and guilt. And it makes everything a lot easier when you’re working with your kids. But it’s okay to take time. Just listen, you don’t have to have answers. You can say, I don’t know. You can say I need a minute to think about that. Or can I get back to you tomorrow, that’s actually an exercise we practice in the Children’s Program is that we’ll have children share with their caregivers, kind of what addictions been like for them. And the caregivers don’t respond till the next day. So, we’re like, take a minute process. Think about what you really feel and heard and, you know, get some support. And let’s talk it through. And then you can respond to them so that you are responding in a way that’s helpful for everybody.
Jessica 18:15
Yeah,
Margaret 18:16
Awesome tips, awesome suggestions that they can start doing at home, around whatever care they get for their youngsters.
So, get your thinking caps on I’d like both of you to give us two resources you love for teenagers around addiction, mental health.
So, I won’t ask you right now think about it. In the meantime, I have all the faith in both of you. I’ve had the privilege of getting to know each of you on a different level. I have all the faith in you doing wonderful work. For the age group that comes to it is from what to what, what’s it open to?
Jessica 18:49
13 to 19? Thank you. 19 is kind of old. But yeah.
Margaret 18:53
But it’s open if needed. Okay, yeah. So, I’d love you to share a little bit about your passion for this age group and why you felt a desire to do this work because not everyone can nor should. And maybe what about you brought you to this helping professions, so whatever you’re comfortable sharing. And then your resource for caregivers for their teenagers.
Jessica 19:15
I’ve worked with youth in one way or another for 20 years. And I think all the things that I do with them now I often think back to me, I’ve worked in prevention programs in high school. And I think Man, if I had this in high school, I would not have hated it so much.
I think it was a really rough time for a lot of reasons. I had a great family and still was not given the space to talk about my feelings, to share why I was struggling in a lot of ways and I think I didn’t know why. I’m like why do I have these problems that I’m struggling with here? There was a lot of shame around it. I should be able to pull it together or I should be able to, in a really religious family was just pray it’ll go away. And, you know, I believe in the power of prayer and no judgment on that at the same time, but I think too, it was a lot of shame around what I was experiencing and going through. And it was never ever, ever talked about.
And so, I think that’s why I want to provide this space for teenagers is because it’s okay to talk about it. In fact, it’s important to talk about it. And how do you reach out? And if your parents just don’t know, how do you tell them? This is what I need. Because I think it’s hard to know, you know, we don’t know how to say, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I want to talk to you, I don’t know how to talk to you. But I want you to know, it’s safe to do so. And so, I want to empower parents and kids to just do that.
Margaret 20:39
Wonderful. Do you know what resources you would throw out? Are we coming back to you on that?
Jessica 20:44
Maybe come back to me,
Margaret: okay,
Jessica: yeah,
Margaret 20:46
No, it’s tough. I should have asked you ahead of time, but I’m putting you on the spot. Because I figure, you know, one of the things I find in doing research for resources for people, and that’s why it’s so exciting you’ve started this is. This age group, in particular, there’s the obvious Alateen. And then there’s maybe the prevention and some of the peer driven stuff in school, but either a great book, or podcast or resource that you think would be cool for them to find or for the parent to learn more about their teenager, maybe?
Lindsey 21:15
Yeah, you know, I grew up in a family addiction is on both sides of my family has been generationally a really rough disease. And growing up, my dad struggled with alcohol addiction, mostly.
And so, I was these kids and these teenagers, and didn’t really have a lot of resources. And you know, I was lucky, my dad found recovery when I was about 15. But then my younger brother struggled with drug addiction and alcohol addiction for a long time. And he’s in recovery as well, which is wonderful for me.
But I definitely understand how they felt and really connect with their stories about feeling like I needed to be perfect, and feeling like I needed to make everybody happy and really responsible for what was going on in my family.
So, it’s always been something I’m very passionate about. And specifically, I love working with adolescents, like, obviously, in the children’s program, I work with that younger age, and they’re so fabulous and amazing. But I’ll definitely notice that gap and like teenagers need help, too.
I love their ability to be honest, and their ability to really look at a situation and they have such a unique perspective that I think is really powerful and kind of misunderstood. It’s really easy sometimes to brush off maybe some of their anger or their sadness, but they really do need somewhere to go with a lot of it and feeling really different. Adolescence is hard enough, and then you throw in having a kind of chaotic or dysfunctional family. And it’s like, where do you go and feel good and feel safe. There’s just not a lot of places out there for them. So, I’m really excited about the group that we’re doing. And just Hazleton in general has a lot of great resources for everybody. But so, I think there’s a couple resources than thinking of one, the Alateen Book can be kind of interesting. I know people can get a hold of, and it does have some good information, and some good discussion. There’s another book called, ‘Different Like Me’ that I recommended to families. It’s a book for teens who have a parental addiction. But I think there’s definitely some good websites and research out there.
In Colorado, we have an organization called Natural Highs and it’s for teens, there’s groups and they have like online things. So, I know that’s like a local resource that maybe not everyone can access. But I don’t know if Jessica thought of some more.
Jessica 23:36
Yeah, I thought of two. In fact, I just Googled those, Lindsey, because I think those will be really cool to make sure we have as resources for people.
There’s a website, it’s called potatoallergy.com. Yeah, and it’s a kids and parents wrote two books. And it’s a little bit young for teens its like the early tween age, but it was really a great website. And parents speak all over the country and dad is the one in recovery. And kids are the one sharing their experience.
And another author who of course, he’s a neuroscientist, but I love how he writes. He’s a really good he’s sort of at the forefront of relationships and neuroscience, and he has a book called ‘Parenting From the Inside Out’. His name is Daniel Siegel, si, e. G. Al.
Margaret 24:24
Parenting from the inside out. Great Title.
Jessica 24:29
Yeah. And it’s an intense book, but he’s a very good writer. And there’s a lot of reminders as far as how our traumas impact us as parents. How our experiences impact our interactions with our kids. And why you know, like when your baby is crying that you might be reacting as well what else could that have to do with your past? And so, it’s an incredible book as far as just understanding those things that come up and how we parent our kids, and so him as an author and then that book, potatoallergy.com
Margaret 25:00
Great, and I’ll have those links on my show notes. And I’ll also obviously put in Hazel ends link so they can find you and your program. Is there a number they can call to talk to someone? If they have a teenager? They would like to admit, even if, because I’m understanding that it’s open to anyone, not just someone who’s been through the treatment facility. Yeah,
Jessica 25:21
Yeah, for sure. Probably our 800 number for the Family Program. And Lindsey and I can always tag team on. Yeah, it is 877-429-5093.
Margaret 25:38
And that would be a number that would get people to not only the adolescent program, which obviously we’re talking about, but also access to the Family Program. And does that also access the Children’s Program?
Jessica 25:48
Yeah, for sure.
Margaret 25:50
Great. Great. So, what have you found in the time that you’ve been doing the program has been a takeaway that you hear from the youngsters who participated? What stood out for you in this? Because I’m sure that’s most validating of why you wanted to start it, but also hopeful for those young people going forward?
Lindsey 26:09
Yeah, there’s been a lot of, you know, we do have like an evaluation. And we asked the participants to fill out anything. We’ve seen a lot of really positive reviews, as far as like that they learned something, that they felt like they really weren’t alone, which I think is huge, understood more about the disease of addiction, I think that’s something that really is powerful for this age to know more about. Their loved one is not necessarily like a bad person who’s doing bad things, that they have a disease and it’s, you know, kind of taken over them that when they’re not drinking or using, they’re a much different person. Kind of just giving them some understanding of that. And yeah, what would you add, Jessica?
Jessica 26:52
I think just hearing what they’re willing to take away with them, right, that they heard something, right? The communication skills and the self-care piece, I think this last time, a majority of them said communication. And I think a lot of times we assume teenagers, I don’t care about that there’s such a deeper apart, you know, there’s depth to what these kids really do want and need. And that really showed Lindsay and I like, okay, are there they’re listening, and this is important to them.
Lindsey 27:21
I think a lot of them have come away being like, okay, I can talk about this, maybe I will reach out to my family or try to do something different and that I can take care of myself. I think that’s been a powerful message that a lot of them have taken away as well. They’ve shared with us of just being like, this is not just my burden to carry around, and we can talk about it.
Jessica: Yep
Outro: I have really appreciated that Jessica Garrison and Lindsey Chadwick took time away from their busy schedules at Hazelden Betty Ford Family and Children’s Programs to share such valuable resources for opening dialogue and connecting with the youngest most vulnerable members of this family disease of addiction.
Thank you ladies for the vital, and sacred work you and your teams do for family members of all ages.
Margaret 28:28
I want to thank my guests for their courage, and vulnerability in sharing parts of their story.
Please find resources on my website:
This is Margaret Swift Thompson.
Until next time, please take care of you!
